For technical discussions, work-arounds and fixes - not for general moans

Moderators: Technical, Oz mods

Post Reply
Smithy
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:48 pm
Location: Oxford

TF5800 restarts while recording

Post by Smithy »

Hi

in the last 3-4 weeks my TF5800 has intermittently re-started itself in the middle of a recording. I wondered if anyone could suggest a likely cause so I can figure out whether to have someone try to repair it, or if I might be better off looking for a new box.

Symptoms: while recording (either from Standby or already powered on), the display suddenly changes to C4.56 and the box reboots. It's been fine on playback and I haven't noticed any other odd behaviour.

At the time the problem first showed up there was a change to ITV channels in our area. I've done a factory re-set and re-tuned (twice). I had frequent problems for a week or so, followed by a week where it was pretty well-behaved, and now it's kind of 50/50 whether a recording completes.

I've owned my TF5800 for 6 or 7 years. The capacitors were replaced in 2013. I realise I'm running a non-recommended firmware but it's been on there for years and I've run it with MyStuff and had no problems until now. (I *was* going to have a look at it and then switch to the recommended firmware, but never got round to the 2nd install).

Thanks
Andy
TF5800 Firmware TF-NPT-5.13.65T
MyStuff v6.6
Geoff Bacon
Frequent contributor
Posts: 4663
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:21 am
Location: Bristol
Contact:

Post by Geoff Bacon »

How many capacitors were changed ?
If they weren't all changed then that is probably the cause of the problem (if andyfras repaired it. he will have done all of them).

The other problem is that you say that you are not running on a "recommended" firmware. This could means anything from not having one or two patches to missing many patches and/or taps.

You need to post the output of the MyInfo tap (if you have a windows pc, install TopManager and, after setting up the connection, use Display| MyInfo Log to view the data; then cut and paste into this thread).

I suspect that you need to run the full MyStuff installer (accepting all options, including the firmware). While this may not solve your problem it will at least make your system similar to that used by most other users. It will also eliminate some possible causes.

It would really be nice to identify the cause before changes are made to your toppy so, as a first step, post the MyInfo Log (if you don't have MyInfo installed, use the TopManager Tools| Install Files option to load it)

Geoff
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPePfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; MHEG On/Off A3; QuickJump 1.72; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; WSSkiller V2.12d; MyInfo B5.6; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0; MyStuff 6.6-1;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 3/5/21
ccs
Frequent contributor
Posts: 2689
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:19 pm

Post by ccs »

I think you've already highlighted at least one fundamental problem.
TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -FmXl+CtEzIScVdZ
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.6;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 20/10/14
ccsx
mstombs
Frequent contributor
Posts: 938
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:58 pm

Post by mstombs »

Other reports blame BBC red-button interactive services for random crashes, can you disable them in that stock firmware?

Also did the retune bring in the local mux, is the the signal strength usable?
juwlz
MyStuff Team
Posts: 10804
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:13 am
Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
Contact:

Post by juwlz »

Your sig says you're running MyStuff 6.5. If I were you, I'd take this opportunity to update to MS 6.6 using the installer, and update the firmware while you're at it (and then Factory Reset, and use Channel Organiser to prune your channels (aim for no more than 40 in total - TV and Radio). There is absolutely no benefit to running Freeview+ firmware on a box that doesn't absolutely have to if you're using MyStuff. Mystuff steadfastly refuses to use the "features" that Freeview+ firmware provides (badly) anyway, and there are plenty of benefits to NOT running it. Not least of which is that nobody bothered producing patches for anything other than absolute critical show stopping bugs. You'll also get true standby and save some electricity.

The other things to check would be the number of channels you have (see Toppy Memory) - but it's not JUST memory considerations.

Also, check your signal quality (see Disk wipes due to poor signal). It's possible that you're just getting lucky, and wiping a bit of memory that causes your Toppy to reboot by recording a dodgy channel, rather than wiping or partially wiping your hard drive. If you use the MyStuff installer, you'll find the Signal Monitor TAP in the Utilities folder.

Lots of people are seeing various problems due to changes being made by the broadcasters at the moment, so just because it's always worked on iffy firmware until now, that's no guarantee that it will continue to work properly. There is at least one shortcut taken in the Freeview+ firmware that causes problems that don't exist in the recommended firmware (search the forum for Rowridge - there's a huge long thread about it from 2 or 3 years ago), and more areas seem to be switching to whatever it is that caused problems for those on the Rowridge transmitter.

Julie
5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+BmC0CfCtFsIMPePsR3UUuUxZ
5810, TS On, F/W: F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +BmCfCtFsR3Z
MyStuff info; Help!; Reference
Harmony 885 remote. Sig date 8 April 2012
Smithy
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:48 pm
Location: Oxford

Post by Smithy »

Thanks everyone. I'll try to cover all points made.

As of yesterday I've updated to MyStuff 6.6. I'll investigate MyInfo.

I'm on a Mac at home so I've never tried the firmware installer, but I can give it a go on a Windows laptop. TBH I was a bit wary of trying to upgrade firmware on a machine that may have a hardware fault, in case I ended up with a brick.

I don't entirely buy the argument about the firmware as I've used it successfully since it was released, BUT I realise the recent broadcast changes may have had an effect. Obviously with MyStuff I don't use the Freeview+ aspects of the firmware but I kept it because it gave higher speed fast-forward and reverse than the standard, plus laziness about reinstalling.

Signal strength in our area (East Oxford, within the city) is generally very good. I have the default set of channels (i.e. loads) so I could try trimming down a bit. Presumably a manual trim would give the same result as Channel Organiser.

I'll see how it goes for the next few days (successful recording last night) and then think about switching firmware. I expect I'll be back!

Thanks again
Cheers
Andy
TF5800 Firmware TF-NPT-5.13.65T
MyStuff v6.6
Smithy
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:48 pm
Location: Oxford

Post by Smithy »

After further thought I decided to go for the recommended firmware. I'm currently re-scanning channels following the factory reset.

Running the MyStuff Installer from Windows 7 was far from straightforward when I had no prior experience of connection to the Toppy from Windows. I had driver problems but after several hours of fiddling and forum-reading I got hold of z4t which enabled the Installer to talk to the Toppy.

Fingers crossed and thanks again for your advice!
Cheers
Andy
TF5800 Firmware TF-NPT-5.13.65T
MyStuff v6.6
Bizman
Frequent contributor
Posts: 1707
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:46 pm

Post by Bizman »

Smithy wrote:I have the default set of channels (i.e. loads) so I could try trimming down a bit. Presumably a manual trim would give the same result as Channel Organiser.
No it wouldn't - unless you could guarantee that the remaining channels are all from the same transmitter.
Moreover CO remembers your deletions and makes a retune so much easier next time.
TF5810, F/W: 5.15.09T 4/9/2009 -FmTe+EzHsVb
TAPs: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; MHEG On/Off A3; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; PruneEPG 1.0; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; Extend v1.7; (fsSave 1.1);
Sig generated by MyInfo on 3/8/17

Other TAPs : FsCheck, Channel Organiser. PSU Caps 7/2/2011 Tx: Mendip. TV: Samsung (32"), NSLU2, STB: Labgear FV300. PC Acer Aspire One with Win7 Starter
Geoff Bacon
Frequent contributor
Posts: 4663
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:21 am
Location: Bristol
Contact:

Post by Geoff Bacon »

Also, when deleting file, ChannelOrganiser (and/or TopManager/PcControl) make alterations to the .ini files used by associated taps; deleting channels manually may cause problems in the future.

Geoff
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPePfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; MHEG On/Off A3; QuickJump 1.72; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; WSSkiller V2.12d; MyInfo B5.6; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0; MyStuff 6.6-1;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 3/5/21
juwlz
MyStuff Team
Posts: 10804
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:13 am
Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
Contact:

Post by juwlz »

Smithy wrote:I kept it because it gave higher speed fast-forward and reverse than the standard, plus laziness about reinstalling.
There's a FFWD TAP or the Wf patch for that 8).

But actually, the QuickJump features built into MyStuff for the coloured keys usually work well, or you can use the full QuickJump TAP for more functionality (binary jump, for instance). I hardly ever use the FF/REW buttons.

Julie
5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+BmC0CfCtFsIMPePsR3UUuUxZ
5810, TS On, F/W: F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +BmCfCtFsR3Z
MyStuff info; Help!; Reference
Harmony 885 remote. Sig date 8 April 2012
Smithy
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:48 pm
Location: Oxford

Post by Smithy »

6 days in and no crashes. It's looking positive although I did have a good week in the middle of two bad ones when this problem started.

BTW I forgot to mention that when I ran the MyStuff/firmware installer some Utility TAPs failed to install because of a connection problem to a web site. Sorry for the rather vague report, but maybe it was just a temporary thing.
There's a FFWD TAP or the Wf patch for that.
I didn't know about that. I tend to use the MyStuff quick jumps and then fast forward to skip that final few seconds of ads. Impatient...

Cheers
Andy
TF5800 Firmware TF-NPT-5.13.65T
MyStuff v6.6
Geoff Bacon
Frequent contributor
Posts: 4663
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:21 am
Location: Bristol
Contact:

Post by Geoff Bacon »

Suggest you use QuickJump rather than the MyStuff ones; you can configure the coloured buttons as for MyStuff but also configure the big arrow buttons in the center of the remote (I have big left = -4:05, right=+4:14, Up=-1:00, Down= +1:00).
You can configure lots of different keys but I tend to just use these and the coloured buttons. I also find that the Right key is usually right in skipping ITV adverts; if necessary, you can teak this jump using a coloured button to move by a few seconds.

Note: if you do use QJ, it must load before MS when the tappy boots (so that it sees the key presses before MyStuff). If necessary, change the tap order using
TopManager/PcControl|TapCommander or with the TapCommander tap

Geoff
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPePfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; MHEG On/Off A3; QuickJump 1.72; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; WSSkiller V2.12d; MyInfo B5.6; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0; MyStuff 6.6-1;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 3/5/21
ccs
Frequent contributor
Posts: 2689
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:19 pm

Post by ccs »

I'd stick to the MyStuff jump keys, and post a MyInfo log to see what's going on.
TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -FmXl+CtEzIScVdZ
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.6;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 20/10/14
ccsx
juwlz
MyStuff Team
Posts: 10804
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:13 am
Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
Contact:

Post by juwlz »

Geoff Bacon wrote:Suggest you use QuickJump rather than the MyStuff ones; you can configure the coloured buttons as for MyStuff but also configure the big arrow buttons in the center of the remote (I have big left = -4:05, right=+4:14, Up=-1:00, Down= +1:00).
:)
I have right and left arrows set for binary jumps (with a 4 minute start point), so {right, right} jumps 8 minutes; {right, left} jumps 4 forward then 2 back (and net change of 2 minutes forward); {right, left, right} jumps 4 forward, then 2 back, then 1 forward (and net change of 3 minutes forward), etc.

I find it really useful if I've hit something that accidentally did a big jump to be able to home in on where I was supposed to be.

NB: The logic for binary (I think) says two consecutive jumps in the same direction repeat the action for the first jump; changing direction halves the jump.

Julie
5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+BmC0CfCtFsIMPePsR3UUuUxZ
5810, TS On, F/W: F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +BmCfCtFsR3Z
MyStuff info; Help!; Reference
Harmony 885 remote. Sig date 8 April 2012
Post Reply