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arrow57
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Re: PSU Repair - Latest Information

Post by arrow57 »

andyfras wrote:The original PSU Repair thread is now 100 pages long and some of the information is no longer complete. Nobody wants to read through 100 pages to find all the nuggets of useful information, so I think it's important to start a new thread with up-to-date information.

The Wiki is usually kept up to date, so it is a good place to look.

The original capacitors used in Toppy PSUs are not the best quality, but there is no evidence that they were ever 'dodgy' in any way. They are similar to the ones used in Humax PVRs, but because Humax fit a fan, their capacitors last much longer.

Fitting a fan is recommended for all Toppies, but particularly for 5810s. It doesn't need to run fast, so it can be very quiet. There are various threads about doing this in the Firmwares, enhancements and upgrades section.

If your Toppy is a number of years old, some its capacitors will probably be out of specification. It's not a matter of if they will fail, it's just when. A 5800 will be OK for up to 5 years provided it has good ventilation and is put into standby when not in use. A 5810 will not last so long and I've seen failures at 2 years; this is mainly due to fewer ventilation slots on the 5810. Higher temperatures lead to earlier PSU capacitor and HDD failure.

Early 5800 PSUs used brown Sam Young capacitors. If your Toppy's PSU still has these, they should be replaced as soon as possible.

On later models, different capacitor types were used. Although the black Samxon capacitors were slightly better, the green Samxon capacitors were, if anything, worse. These often dome when failing, unlike the brown or black ones which show no physical signs.

Replacement capacitors should be low ESR (impedance) 105°C types from a reputable manufacturer. These should last significantly longer that the originals. The current recommendation is to replace all 18 capacitors in a 5800 PSU and 13 in a 5810 PSU. Kits for DIY repair are available from me (and MikeyP) at very reasonable prices, and are much better quality than the capacitors available from Maplin. If you prefer, both MikeyP and I offer a repair service too.

If you suspect that your PSU may be failing, and you have access to a meter, measuring the voltages on the PSU edge connector is the best way to confirm it. Be VERY careful when doing this, as the large heatsink is at about 400V and will give you a nasty shock if touched. The key voltage is 5V, as the PSU uses this for regulation. If the 5V goes slightly low (4.9V or less) other voltages rise significantly and can eventually cause damage to some mainboard components and/or HDD.

Here are nominal and typical values for a 5800 PSU (HDD running):

Code: Select all

Marked     Measured
30V        30V - 31V
22V        24V - 25V (wrongly marked on PCB)
17V        16.5 - 17.1V
8V         7.4V - 7.6V
5V         5V
3.3V       3.3V (has its own regulator)
15V        15V - 15.6V

12V        12V - 12.8V
The readings for a 5810 PSU are similar, but it has no 24V or 15V outputs.

There is further information on my website including a list of known faults for 5800s and 5810s.

YouTube time-lapse PSU repair (5800 type)
sorry about the literary intrusion, please see below
Last edited by arrow57 on Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
arrow57
arrow57
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Post by arrow57 »

much confused I am, newly forum formed I am, posting in the right place I may not be, however...

I have a problem in that my HDD has become invisible, quiet as the grave in fact. When the TF-5800 started to wobble i replaced the caps as recommended. Still no HDD. I have checked the voltages on the PSU and they are

1 36.7
2 29.5V
3 20.6V
4 Ground
5 9.2V
6 Ground
7 6.3V
8 Ground
9 4.3V
10 Ground
11 18.4V
12 Black wire

1 9.7V
2 15.3V
3 15.3V
4 Black wire

Any help or advice would be hugely appreciated. If never more to see my much loved 5800 I will upgrade to the 7260 but only if this incarnation would work in the UK.

Many thanks optimistically. Arrow57.
arrow57
mstombs
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Post by mstombs »

Those numbers are from a sick PSU, or a sick multimeter!
andyfras
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Post by andyfras »

Almost certainly, the latter. I suggest a new battery in the meter.

I suspect the the disk is corrupted or faulty.
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
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arrow57
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Post by arrow57 »

Oh dear, I will check the multimeter then check the voltages again.
arrow57
andyfras
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Post by andyfras »

I find that the easiest way to measure the voltages is to put the black probe through the rear centre screw hole in the chassis, then you just need to move the red probe for each measurement.

The black wire on the 4-way connector should be 12V on a 5800, and the two inner pins should be 0V. Looking at your previous measurements, I think that you must have assumed that the black wire was 0V, and that the voltage measured on the inner pins was in fact -15.3V, and -9.7V on pin 1.
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
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andyfras
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Post by andyfras »

arrow57 wrote:I have a problem in that my HDD has become invisible, quiet as the grave in fact. When the TF-5800 started to wobble i replaced the caps as recommended.
As for your original problem, if the voltages had gone far enough out of specification before you changed the capacitors, there's a strong chance that the disk's over-voltage protection diode had gone short-circuit. This in turn will cause U51 on the mainboard to blow. This is an 8 leg chip between the 2 PSU connectors on the mainboard, and will usually have a crater or other physical signs when it blows.

This chip can be replaced, but it's a bit tricky as it's surface-mount. But it's vital that the short-circuit over-voltage diode on the disk is removed, and ideally replaced, before connecting it to any power. The disk can be checked by measuring the resistance between the 2 pins nearest the edge of the 4-way Molex connector.
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.6 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver : Prune EPG
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 320GB 2.5", Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScUUuWfZ
arrow57
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Post by arrow57 »

Hi Andyfras, thanks, I will try again with renewed enthusiasm and battery for my voltmeter, will get back as soon as poss.
arrow57
arrow57
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Post by arrow57 »

Eureka, thanks to a considerable amount of forum direction, not least from Andyfras I have found what could be part of the problem. Shame I cannot share with all the horrific picture of the blackened U51.

All I need now is a crash course in surface mount soldering. All good learning experience tho.
:D
arrow57
alan_m
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Post by alan_m »

arrow57 wrote:Eureka, thanks to a considerable amount of forum direction, not least from Andyfras I have found what could be part of the problem. Shame I cannot share with all the horrific picture of the blackened U51.

All I need now is a crash course in surface mount soldering. All good learning experience tho.
:D
Lots of liquid flux and Youtube tutorial videos.

If you can cut the leads on the component you are attempting to remove - you are not going to reuse a duff component.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NN7UGWYmBY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7Tu8NXu5UA
Ex Toppy 5800 user - now migrated to Xtrend ET10000 Enigma 2 box with 2 terrestrial and 2 satellite tuners. Second box Zgemma H9S (Enigma 2, satellite)
andyfras
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Post by andyfras »

Remember to remove the faulty diode on the hard disk, otherwise you'll blow the new U51 as soon as you connect it.

I can supply a replacement U51 and HDD protection diode.
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.6 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver : Prune EPG
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 320GB 2.5", Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScUUuWfZ
arrow57
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Post by arrow57 »

andyfras wrote:Remember to remove the faulty diode on the hard disk, otherwise you'll blow the new U51 as soon as you connect it.

I can supply a replacement U51 and HDD protection diode.
Hi andy, yes please, can you let me know how much and how to arrange this?
:D
arrow57
andyfras
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Post by andyfras »

PM sent.
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.6 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver : Prune EPG
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 320GB 2.5", Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScUUuWfZ
DavidBelgium
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Post by DavidBelgium »

andyfras wrote:Check the rest of the voltages and that should show which diode is shorted.
After some months leaving the board in a dark corner of my desk, I reattempted repair of my PSU ORTP-831

I have these voltages:

Expected Real
3,3 < 0,1
5 1,36
8 2,18
12 3,55
15 3,42
17 4,72
22 6,94
30 9,1

So I presume D10 and/or D11 died as I have a very low voltage on pin 1 of V3 (the 3.3V regulator)
Also 0v at the cathode of D11. At the anode of D11 I see spikes up to 30v and more as if the PSU wants to start each x ms

Do they ever fail. Seem to be sturdy diodes according to the datasheets (7.5A ! and +60V reverse)
andyfras
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Post by andyfras »

The diodes do fail very occasionally, and for no apparent reason. I suggest that you check each diode for a short-circuit with your meter, starting with D11. I can supply a replacement.
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.6 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver : Prune EPG
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 320GB 2.5", Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScUUuWfZ
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