General chat about the TF5800 and TF5810 PVRs, along with other European Topfield models, customer service, plus other Toppy issues not covered elsewhere

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Geoff Bacon
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Re: Error Message: firmware was changed with a latest one

Post by Geoff Bacon »

Just noticed that you said that GCBMyStuffInstaller didn't detect the toppy.
This uses the same mechanism as TopManager so am I right in assuming that that it also can't connect.

You can only have one connection to the toppy (however, both TM and the installer should warn you if another program is still running).

So
1) how are you connecting?
2) What is the operating system?
3) How are you loading EmptySettings e.g. TFDN_USB, Antares or another method (is there one?)
4) How are you reinstalling the firmware.g. like EmptySettings or by running fwlLoad

Assuming TM or Antares works, try copying a fwload.tap into Auto Start and then reboot the toppy. This should reload the firmware from whatever happens to be on the disk. If neither TM or Antares work, this could be down to the USB or it could be down to what caused the message.

If you can't copy via USB, can you install the disk in a working toppy, boot taplesss and put the fwload.tap in the Auto Start, Power off this toppy, wait 2 minutes and remove the disk. Reinsert in the problem toppy and try powering it up.

Once you have the toppy working, you should run GCBMyStuffInstaller on it (if the USB isn't working, put the disk in another toppy and run it there)

Geoff
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPePfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; MHEG On/Off A3; QuickJump 1.72; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; WSSkiller V2.12d; MyInfo B5.6; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0; MyStuff 6.6-1;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 3/5/21
fhjones
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Re: Error Message: firmware was changed with a latest one

Post by fhjones »

Thank you for your suggestion @alan_m

I tried holding down the zero button on the remote and switching on at the mains, but the the boot process stalls at the error message.

I can't access the menu and the Toppy doesn't respond to the remote control. The remote control resonse light flashes in the display.

Thanks @YorkshieJumbo

I can load EmptySettings or the latest firmware using Antares, but other than that it says that the machine isn't connected, so I can't see the HDD to delete any TAPs.
TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +UUu
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; PruneEPG 1.0; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 12/1/21
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fhjones
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Re: Error Message: firmware was changed with a latest one

Post by fhjones »

Thank you for your suggestions @Geoff. I'll do some more work on the issue later.
TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +UUu
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; PruneEPG 1.0; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 12/1/21
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fhjones
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Posts: 208
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:59 am

Re: Error Message: firmware was changed with a latest one

Post by fhjones »

Geoff Bacon wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 12:26 pm Just noticed that you said that GCBMyStuffInstaller didn't detect the toppy.
This uses the same mechanism as TopManager so am I right in assuming that that it also can't connect.

You can only have one connection to the toppy (however, both TM and the installer should warn you if another program is still running).

So
1) how are you connecting?
2) What is the operating system?
3) How are you loading EmptySettings e.g. TFDN_USB, Antares or another method (is there one?)
4) How are you reinstalling the firmware.g. like EmptySettings or by running fwlLoad

Assuming TM or Antares works, try copying a fwload.tap into Auto Start and then reboot the toppy. This should reload the firmware from whatever happens to be on the disk. If neither TM or Antares work, this could be down to the USB or it could be down to what caused the message.

If you can't copy via USB, can you install the disk in a working toppy, boot taplesss and put the fwload.tap in the Auto Start, Power off this toppy, wait 2 minutes and remove the disk. Reinsert in the problem toppy and try powering it up.

Once you have the toppy working, you should run GCBMyStuffInstaller on it (if the USB isn't working, put the disk in another toppy and run it there)

Geoff
Thanks Geoff

GCBMyStuffInstaller doesn't detect the Toppy, neither does TopManager.

I am trying to connect to the Toppy via USB using Windows 10. Antares says that the machine isn't connected, but it does transfer the files for EmptySettings and the recommended firmware. After the transfer it says END on the display, but when I reboot it stalls at the error message.

Antares can't 'see' the Toppy, so I can't access the HDD. I can access other Topfields.

I'll do more work on the issue later.
TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +UUu
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; PruneEPG 1.0; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 12/1/21
â„¢
ccs
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Re: Error Message: firmware was changed with a latest one

Post by ccs »

If Antares can't see the toppy, emptysettings will never get transferred across.
TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -FmXl+CtEzIScVdZ
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.6;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 20/10/14
ccsx
Geoff Bacon
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Re: Error Message: firmware was changed with a latest one

Post by Geoff Bacon »

Sounds like the USB is not working properly on that toppy (possibly because of the firmware issue) - this could mean that Antares only thinks it has uploaded the firmware.

If you can get to the System| Installation menu, check to see if the "Format System Disk" option is greyed out (if so, this would prevent TM etc connecting to the toppy)

As suggested in my previous post, swap the disk into a working toppy, boot tapless and run GCBMyStuffInstaller.
Then use TM or Antares to copy a FwLoad.tap to Auto Start (don't just move the one in ProgramFiles\Utilities as FwLoad deletes itself when it is in Auto Start)
Refit disk in problem toppy and reboot.
Hopefully, that will be enough to redo the firmware (if not, it shouldn't cause any hiccups)

Geoff
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPePfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; MHEG On/Off A3; QuickJump 1.72; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; WSSkiller V2.12d; MyInfo B5.6; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0; MyStuff 6.6-1;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 3/5/21
fhjones
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Posts: 208
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:59 am

Re: Error Message: firmware was changed with a latest one

Post by fhjones »

ccs wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 1:53 pm If Antares can't see the toppy, emptysettings will never get transferred across.
Antares reports Device not connected, but the EmptySettings files are transferred across.

@Geoff

I can't get to the Systems menu.
I contacted andyfras. He suggested trying to boot with the HDD disconnected. I'll try again later.
TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +UUu
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; PruneEPG 1.0; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 12/1/21
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alan_m
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Re: Error Message: firmware was changed with a latest one

Post by alan_m »

When the Toppy first switches on the USB port becomes active and this is when Antares detects it and transfers EmptySettings. This is BEFORE the software boot process which may then load different USB drivers. This start-up USB mechanism is the reason that is hard to brick a Toppy. It is the recovery mechanism when the operating system/software is totally corrupt.

In the link I posted about EmptySettings Antares initially reports not connected because the Toppy is switched off. When the box is subsequently switched on via the mains plug within a couple of seconds Antares does connect and transfers the EmptySettings file.

If you can obtain a copy of the latest Toppy firmware/software [a tdf? file] it can be loaded in exactly the same way as EmptySettings using Antares using the USB connection that is active immediately on box switch on. Others can advise on obtaining a stand alone Toppy firmware file [It’s now a few years since I took any interest in finding updates for a box that I no longer own :) ]
Ex Toppy 5800 user - now migrated to Xtrend ET10000 Enigma 2 box with 2 terrestrial and 2 satellite tuners. Second box Zgemma H9S (Enigma 2, satellite)
Geoff Bacon
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Re: Error Message: firmware was changed with a latest one

Post by Geoff Bacon »

The firmware file is "\ProgramFiles\InstallerFirmware\Recommended_5810.tfd"

Use Antares to copy this (and LatestVersion.tfd) from a working toppy disk.

Install Recommended_5810.tfd in the same way as you applied EmptySettings (one of your previous post indicates that you have already tried installing the firmware)

You can try LatestVersion.tfd should Recommended not work (it is a compressed version with several patches applied; Although Recommended doesn't contain these patches, you are just trying to get to a state where you can apply a full update).

Geoff
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPePfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; MHEG On/Off A3; QuickJump 1.72; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; WSSkiller V2.12d; MyInfo B5.6; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0; MyStuff 6.6-1;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 3/5/21
Geoff Bacon
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Posts: 4663
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:21 am
Location: Bristol
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Re: Error Message: firmware was changed with a latest one

Post by Geoff Bacon »

Best use the Recommended_5810 file (it exists on all toppies - the LatestVersion.tfd file is specific to the toppy model that it is taken off)

Geoff
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPePfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; MHEG On/Off A3; QuickJump 1.72; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; WSSkiller V2.12d; MyInfo B5.6; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0; MyStuff 6.6-1;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 3/5/21
fhjones
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:59 am

Re: Error Message: firmware was changed with a latest one

Post by fhjones »

Thanks Geoff.

I can't 'see' the HDD with Antares, because it reports Not Connected. I can transfer EmptySettings or Recommended Firmware files, but when I re-boot the box the error message appears and the box will not respond to the remote.

I tried booting the Toppy with the HDD disconnected. The error message appeared, but the box responded to the remote control. I reset it and scanned for channels. All seemed to be well, but when I re-connected the HDD it was back to square one. The error message appeared and the box would not respond to the remote control.

I'll take the HDD out and do more work later. It will take me a while, because I am not confident working inside the box.
TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +UUu
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; PruneEPG 1.0; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 12/1/21
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YorkshireJumbo
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Re: Error Message: firmware was changed with a latest one

Post by YorkshireJumbo »

If the HDD is causing issues, it might be worth reformatting it outside the box if you can (after you've transferred anything you want to keep). Formatting on a PC will have the wrong setup for the Toppy's file system. Or do you have a spare SATA drive around that you could plug in. It should offer to reformat it on startup if it's not been formatted on a Toppy. There is a suite of programs (whose name escapes me for now :oops: ) for managing Toppy disks on a PC.
YJ - You may have speed, but I have momentum
Black Panther since Sep '05, Caps replaced July '10
WD10EZRX and Turbosat adaptor added May '16
New Noiseblocker XR1 fan added Mar '21
F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+U+Uu
TAPs: MS 6.6 Suite, UK OZ Surfer
alan_m
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Re: Error Message: firmware was changed with a latest one

Post by alan_m »

To read etc. a toppy formatted disk on a pc you need TOPFHDRW

Available from andy's web page (downloads at bottom of page)

https://sites.google.com/site/andyfrase ... pvr-faults

The install puts a .pdf document/instructions on your PC - German first then English.
Ex Toppy 5800 user - now migrated to Xtrend ET10000 Enigma 2 box with 2 terrestrial and 2 satellite tuners. Second box Zgemma H9S (Enigma 2, satellite)
fhjones
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Posts: 208
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:59 am

Re: Error Message: firmware was changed with a latest one

Post by fhjones »

YorkshireJumbo wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 10:53 am If the HDD is causing issues, it might be worth reformatting it outside the box if you can (after you've transferred anything you want to keep). Formatting on a PC will have the wrong setup for the Toppy's file system. Or do you have a spare SATA drive around that you could plug in. It should offer to reformat it on startup if it's not been formatted on a Toppy. There is a suite of programs (whose name escapes me for now :oops: ) for managing Toppy disks on a PC.
You are correct @YorkshireJumbo. Thank you. Thanks also @alan_m.

An HDD error was the cause of the problem. @andyfras suggested that I should check the disk using TopfHDRW. TopfHDDoctor found an error and corrected it. I put the disk back in the Toppy and it booted as it should. All was well and the recordings were present and correct. :D

Thank you all for your suggestions and help with solving the problem.
TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +UUu
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; PruneEPG 1.0; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 12/1/21
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jimi
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Re: Error Message: firmware was changed with a latest one

Post by jimi »

8) glad you got to the bottom of it and sorted the problem, another Toppy lives on :D
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+Pe
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; Extend v1.7; EPG2MEI v0.96; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; Font Manager 1.0d; MHEG On/Off A3; (MyInfo B5.6); PruneEPG 1.0; MyStuff 6.6;
Sig generated by TopManager/PcControl on 16/12/20
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