For discussion of firmware updates, enhancement requests, and other upgrades to your Toppy, but not TAPs or computer-related

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macmac
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Replacing the current HDD with a larger 1TB HDD

Post by macmac »

Re: 5800

I wish to replace the current HDD with a larger 1TB HDD

Q1: I've checked several articles on this site but was wondering if there's a step-by-step guide ?

And I have the following queries:

1: IDE/SATA Adabtor: StarTech IDE2SAT
I've ordered this, as it's listed as a known-working-adaptor.

2: Re: Samsung_HD103UJ_BU_HDD
This is also listed as a known-working-HDD.
So I wish to use this, as I already have one which I've been using occasionally as an external BU drive for my PC.

I've removed all of the PC's files from this HDD, so...

Q2: Do I need to re-format it ?
If so:
a: Can I do this via a caddy connected to my PC ?
...if so: what format is it ?
or...
b: Must it be done in the Toppy 5800 ?
c: ...if so: How do I do that ?

3: IDE Cable:
Q3: Which is preferable, for the best performance ?

a: Use the original Toppy IDE cable (if I can make it reach) ?
or...
b: Use a new 80 wire IDE (cut to length, if necessary) ?

Q4: Did it make any difference cutting off the unused 3rd connector from the 80 wire IDE cable ?

4: Moving everything to the new HDD:

Q5: Can I just copy everything across, from the Toppies original HDD to the new HDD, using my PC & PC caddy ?

Re: 5810:
Q6: Will the above update be the same & work OK in the 5810 ?

Many thanks.
Last edited by macmac on Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TF5800, IA On, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MyStuff 6.4; PcControl B1.3; SecCache (UK) v0.4;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 28/11/14 ++ 1TB HDD Upgrade
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alan_m
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Re: Replacing the current HDD with a larger 1TB HDD

Post by alan_m »

macmac wrote: Q2: Do I need to re-format it ?
If so:
a: Can I do this via a caddy connected to my PC ?
...if so: what format is it ?
or...
b: Must it be done in the Toppy 5800 ?
c: ...if so: How do I do that ?
Format it in the Toppy. The first time after booting the Toppy with the new disk it will probably detect and format it for you. Otherwise, one of the Toppy's menu options is to format the disk.
3: IDE Cable:
Q3: Which is preferable, for the best performance ?
Ditch the original Toppy cable and use a 80 way backwards - having first drilled out the blanking plug
Q4: Did it make any difference cutting off the unused 3rd connector from the 80 wire IDE cable ?
Cut off the third connector and all of the associated wire. Use a craft knife or a Stanley blade type knife.

Re: 5810:
Q5: Will the above update be the same & work OK in the 5810 ?
Yes
Ex Toppy 5800 user - now migrated to Xtrend ET10000 Enigma 2 box with 2 terrestrial and 2 satellite tuners. Second box Zgemma H9S (Enigma 2, satellite)
ryclark
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Post by ryclark »

Q5: Can I just copy everything across, from the Toppies original HDD to the new HDD, using my PC & PC caddy ?
You will need ToppyHDRW on your PC to allow it to see and copy any Toppy files.

http://www.topfield.cc/files/Firebird/T ... _Setup.zip
TF5800t, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Fm
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; MyInfo B5.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; MHEG On/Off A3; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; TSSaver v0.5;
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Bizman
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Post by Bizman »

It's worth a read of these too
Replacing your Hard Drive
Disk upgrades - summary of working and non-working models: http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17720
TF5810, F/W: 5.15.09T 4/9/2009 -FmTe+EzHsVb
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macmac
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Re: Replacing the current HDD with a larger 1TB HDD

Post by macmac »

Format it in the Toppy. The first time after booting the Toppy with the new disk it will probably detect and format it for you. Otherwise, one of the Toppy's menu options is to format the disk.
On my 'new' HDD:
Rather than laboriously deleting any of its remaining files ?
Is it OK to first format it via my PC & PC caddy (to NTFS) ?
Ditch the original Toppy cable and use a 80 way backwards - having first drilled out the blanking plug

Cut off the third connector and all of the associated wire. Use a craft knife or a Stanley blade type knife.
Which plug should I cut off ?

Bob_Swede's pic seems to show he used the black + grey (ie, cut off the blue) & plugged the grey into the mobo, & the black into the HDD, so its the correct way round.

Yet other say to cut off the black ? (use the blue & grey)
...and use the wrong way round ?
& why does it need to be used the wrong way round ?

So does it matter which I remove ?

Many thanks
TF5800, IA On, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MyStuff 6.4; PcControl B1.3; SecCache (UK) v0.4;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 28/11/14 ++ 1TB HDD Upgrade
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Geoff Bacon
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Post by Geoff Bacon »

You don't need to delete the pc files or format the disk on the pc, just stick it in the toppy once you get the cabling sorted out, The toppy format should be extremely quick (10 secs say) as it only updates a few sectors near the start of the disk (unlike formatting an old floppy drive where every sector had to be written).

Can't help you on sorting out the cabling.

Geoff
TopManager program
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andyfras
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Re: Replacing the current HDD with a larger 1TB HDD

Post by andyfras »

macmac wrote:Which plug should I cut off ?
Blue
edit: Cut off the short end (whatever colour)
Bob_Swede's pic seems to show he used the black + grey (ie, cut off the blue) & plugged the grey into the mobo, & the black into the HDD
That is correct.
edit: Use the longest section of cable 'backwards'.
Yet other say to cut off the black ? (use the blue & grey)
...and use the wrong way round ?
& why does it need to be used the wrong way round ?
It has to do with the earthing of the in-between screening wires in an 80-way cable; the Toppy mobo does not provide this connection, but the HDD does. The mainboard connector is required for this screen connection, so don't cut it off.

There have been some adaptors that were not so critical about screening, but most commonly available ones require it.
Last edited by andyfras on Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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macmac
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Post by macmac »

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies...

To minimise the down-time, I need to get everything ready, before I dismantle the toppy, so...

After cutting off the blue plug (on my 80 wire cable) there would be about 145mm between the black & the grey plugs...

So is that long enough to reach from mobo to Sata-adaptor on the back of the HDD ?

ALSO:

When moving the recordings from the original to the new HDD:
Can I connect them both to the PC (via USB caddies) at the same time, & copy them from the one drive to the other ?

Thanks
TF5800, IA On, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MyStuff 6.4; PcControl B1.3; SecCache (UK) v0.4;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 28/11/14 ++ 1TB HDD Upgrade
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Geoff Bacon
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Post by Geoff Bacon »

You will need to use TopfHDRW to copy the recordings across "quickly" (your other alternative is to copy them slowly using Antares (toppy => pc, swap disk, pc=> toppy).

I believe that you can have both disks connected via USB and use TopfHDRW to copy directly between them. If you attempt this, make sure that the USB ports are on different "USB hubs" and are USB2 or USB3 spec (i.e. not USB1).

For ProgramFiles and contents, do NOT use TopfHDRW as the files won't be copied properly. Instead, with the old disk still in the toppy, use TopManager Snapshot| Take. AFTER using TopfHDRW to transfer the recordings, put the new disk back in the toppy and use Snapshot |Compare/Recover to restore your original ProgramFiles structure.
Note: putting recordings on before MyStuff etc means MS won't get confused should it start without the recordings being present.

If you have't got a USB adapter yet, you need to get somthing like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-2-0-TO-SA ... 58a3ad1570 (£7.25). There are cheaper ones but you probably need the power adapter provided with this one.

[edit]Please note that copying is a slow process and you can't assume that you can leave it running overnight (if an error occurs, the copy is likely to pause awaiting input). Your best bet may be to assume that you will have to copy the files in chunks i.e, copy some across, reinstall the old disk and run with it until you get an opportunity to copy some more files. The time t copy will also be dependent on the capacity of your old disk.[/edit]


Geoff
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andyfras
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Post by andyfras »

macmac wrote:After cutting off the blue plug (on my 80 wire cable) there would be about 145mm between the black & the grey plugs...

So is that long enough to reach from mobo to Sata-adaptor on the back of the HDD ?
Perhaps you have a non-standard lead. On every one I've used, there's about 300mm between black and grey connectors.
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macmac
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Post by macmac »

Perhaps you have a non-standard lead. On every one I've used, there's about 300mm between black and grey connectors.
My lead is: (black) 145mm (grey) 285 (blue)

see here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-RETAIL-PA ... 7675.l2557

So will 145mm be ling enough ?

Thanks
TF5800, IA On, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MyStuff 6.4; PcControl B1.3; SecCache (UK) v0.4;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 28/11/14 ++ 1TB HDD Upgrade
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andyfras
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Post by andyfras »

I suspect that they've used non-standard colours. I would chop off the shorter connection.

You could try it both ways before cutting off the surplus.
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macmac
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Post by macmac »

It seems correct to me ?
Image

NB: Despite the way the colours look in the above image, they are:
(black) 145mm (grey) 285 (blue)

In a PC:
don't the black & the grey normally go to say: 2 HDD's & the blue to the PC mobo ?

If so: Then the black & the grey are quite close to each other, like shown in this image:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IDE-UDMA-ULTR ... 928970740?

Thanks
TF5800, IA On, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MyStuff 6.4; PcControl B1.3; SecCache (UK) v0.4;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 28/11/14 ++ 1TB HDD Upgrade
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k9oxon
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Post by k9oxon »

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I just popped on to search this very topic. Andy, for clarity, is it the Master (black) and the Slave (grey) sockets that should be used, with the mobo (blue) one and associated cable removed. Which one goes into the SATA adaptor?

Ron
Whoops just found you have answered that question - missed it on my trawl through.
andyfras
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Post by andyfras »

It seems that there are different colour conventions of IDE cable.

Cut off the shortest end, then connect the lead "backwards". This means the connector that would normally go to the motherboard goes to the SATA adapter. The connector that would normally go to the disk connects to the Toppy mainboard (having drilled out the blanked hole).
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
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