For discussion of firmware updates, enhancement requests, and other upgrades to your Toppy, but not TAPs or computer-related

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jimi
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Post by jimi »

jimi wrote:Hi Phil
Yes I removed both the circuit boards and the hard drive mounting frame before making the hole, didn't want to risk damaging the boards. easy enough to remove, a few screws and a couple of plugs.
Can you see the images on my post above ? for some reason all I can see is the links :shock:
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YorkshireJumbo
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Post by YorkshireJumbo »

Rather than drilling, have you thought about using zipties? They can obviously accommodate variations in hole placement and are much easier to fit
YJ - You may have speed, but I have momentum
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philbrown
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Post by philbrown »

jimi

I can't see the images either; for some reason your original post appears as the draft format. I just cut the urls out which displayed the image and I saved them.

The Blacknoise fan is back in stock at overclockers. So impressed I just ordered another one for second toppy rather than use the one from the dead Humax. They seem very good spec compared to anything else, the rubber mounts are useful as well.

I have just enlarged the existing holes rather than use a holesaw. When I've finished I will post pictures.

YorkshireJumbo

I have seen that done but was drilling out anyway to improve airflow as jimi did. Here is an alternative where someone just fitted fans to the top cover with cable ties.

[url]http://www.admac.myzen.co.uk/toppy_fan/[url]

Both - my guess is that almost any fitment of a fan gives the major gain over natural convection and where you put it/them or add extra holes is just tweaking the benefit.

Phil

PS This post isn't converting the URL above. I guess something to do with this ageing forum.
Last edited by philbrown on Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jimi
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Post by jimi »

I've checked my image links are OK, must be something to do with the forum :( URLs still seem to work ok
https://jlawson.co.uk/images/Toppy_Fan/toppy_fan_1.jpg

Yours doesn't work because the first url tag has a / edit the post and take that out and it should work.
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philbrown
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Post by philbrown »

Well, that was a disaster. Removed the / and the whole post evaporated! I'll see if I can remember what I said, here goes

I have just enlarged the holes below the fan rather than make one big hole; just a bit more protection for the fan when handling the box. I will try to post photos when I'm done.

I think any fan placed anywhere will give the major improvement over natural convection. I've read it would be better for the fan to be expelling air from the case which makes sense; I will test both ways.

The Blacknoise fan is back in stock at overclockers. I was so impressed I've ordered another one for the second toppy rather than use the one salvaged from a dead Humax. The rubber mounts are a nice touch as well.

YorkshireJumbo
I have seen cable ties used such as in this article with two fans just fitted to the top of the case.

http://www.admac.myzen.co.uk/toppy_fan/

Phil
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jimi
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Post by jimi »

I disagree.with the fan being better at the top. I tested it both ways, and even used smoke to check the airflow, the most effective cooling of the hard drive was achieved by blowing air in from the bottom below the HDD
If you have it above, sucking air out then tends to draw air in the top vents and then expels it back out the top vents which reduces the air flow across the HDD.
Natural convection has the air coming in at the bottom and out at the top, putting the fan at the bottom sucking air in boosts this natural airflow.
Be interesting to see what conclusions you draw from testing
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YorkshireJumbo
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Post by YorkshireJumbo »

TBH I put mine on the top of the case (inside). It wasn't because of any problems - more because it's now a 16-year-old piece of electronics that needs pampering!
YJ - You may have speed, but I have momentum
Black Panther since Sep '05, Caps replaced July '10
WD10EZRX and Turbosat adaptor added May '16
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MikB
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Post by MikB »

YorkshireJumbo wrote:Rather than drilling, have you thought about using zipties? They can obviously accommodate variations in hole placement and are much easier to fit
Zipties? Bolts? What is all this complexity? :)

Toppy #1 has an ugly-ass 120mm *24V* fan removed from equipment. It's wired to 12v (brought out from the HDD with a Y-splitter) and sits on top of the power supply. It's quiet and shifts enough air to make a difference. It has a finger-grill to stop it becoming a finger chopper, as it is metal bladed.

Toppy #2 has a neater, internal 60mm plastic Y-Tech 12V fan which isn't really "mounted" at all, I discovered that there was a point over the low voltage DC end of the PSU where it would fit
tightly surrounded by heatsinks on two sides, so it was push-fitted into place, and dabbed with araldite to stop it moving. It's still there, some years later ... it's a little louder (smaller, faster).
Toppy Taps: http://toppy.signal11.org.uk

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jimi
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Post by jimi »

After much time spent checking temperatures when using the Toppy, recording, watching, idle etc I found the majority of the heat was being generated by the HDD not the PSU. With having vents below and above it, natural convection seems to keep the PSU at a reasonable temperature
The original HDD's were worse, the newer sata ecogreen ran much cooler.
Hence positioning my fan below the HDD, I fitted with a full size hole below it and to ensure maximum airflow, when it comes to ventilation/cooling airflow is king , the more air in, the more air out 8)
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MikB
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Post by MikB »

jimi wrote: I found the majority of the heat was being generated by the HDD not the PSU.
This is probably perfectly true. However, the fan fitted over the PSU (in both cases drawing upward) moves enough air through that it noticeably helpd the HDD (before: 51-56'C, after 29-35'C) -- whether this is because the additional heat from the PSU is being removed, or because the HDD is caught in the airflow and is freer to dissipate, I don't know.
Toppy Taps: http://toppy.signal11.org.uk

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YorkshireJumbo
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Post by YorkshireJumbo »

Came in to my Toppy sounding like a lathe this morning. :shock: I was worried it might be the disk on the way out, but luckily it was "just" the fan. I guess the bearings have gone which is a bit annoying as it's only just over 3 years old. I've removed it for now and all is quiet, but I think I'll be getting a replacement just in case.

What's the best/quietest fan out at the moment that's reasonably cheap?
YJ - You may have speed, but I have momentum
Black Panther since Sep '05, Caps replaced July '10
WD10EZRX and Turbosat adaptor added May '16
New Noiseblocker XR1 fan added Mar '21
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jimi
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Post by jimi »

jimi wrote:Update
7 years later, still running the same fans and hard drives, no heat problems at all, fans are still quiet. 8)
Here's a link for the current version of the fans I used
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/noiseblo ... 19-nb.html and only £3.95 each (didn't check the postage)
It's now 10 years since I fitted those fans, one of them has run virtually 24/7 since it was installed, still running still quiet. 8)
Last edited by jimi on Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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YorkshireJumbo
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Post by YorkshireJumbo »

That’s one of the reasons I got the same one, but it’s just failed... :(
YJ - You may have speed, but I have momentum
Black Panther since Sep '05, Caps replaced July '10
WD10EZRX and Turbosat adaptor added May '16
New Noiseblocker XR1 fan added Mar '21
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jimi
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Post by jimi »

Surprising, my other one probably has 5 years worth of hours on it an it to is still quiet. Maybe you have just been unlucky ?
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YorkshireJumbo
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Post by YorkshireJumbo »

It's fine when spinning by itself, but as soon as it's pressed against the top of the Toppy it starts misbehaving. Maybe I'll get the same again as it's still cheap :wink:
YJ - You may have speed, but I have momentum
Black Panther since Sep '05, Caps replaced July '10
WD10EZRX and Turbosat adaptor added May '16
New Noiseblocker XR1 fan added Mar '21
F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+U+Uu
TAPs: MS 6.6 Suite, UK OZ Surfer
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