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moley6knipe
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:04 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 863 Location: Spalding, Lincs, UK
Nigel's poll about Word Of Mouth got me thinking about what I'd consider deficiencies in the Toppy's firmware.

I know that one day Topfield will release a firmware that doesn't stop your playback to ask you to change channels, i.e. Check Your Res.

However, is it physically possible to get rid of the message when watching TV and recordings start? Surely we'll always need something to pop up if, for example, I'm watching something on Mux 1 and recordings start on Mux 2 and Mux 3 at the same time; then I physically can't watch Mux 1 any longer. I think I'd still like the option to choose whether or not to let the Toppy change channels.

Out of interest, how does the Humax 9200 cope in these situations?

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nwhitfield
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:14 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 9579
They can get rid of it; they did in a firmware last summer. Unfortunately, it buggered up the recordings when your playback stopped - see 'Dual recordings may fail when playback stops' in the list. That's why you now get playback stopped, so that the channel can be changed on the tuner you were using before you started viewing.

Hopefully they'll one day implement slightly better logic.

Nigel.

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Richard46
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:02 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 1586 Location: Forest Gate East London
I seem to remember a post many moons ago from Gerti (author of improbox) explaining the the interupt replay problem was buried deep in the firmware and was carried over from coding used on previous Toppys. Sounded like Gerti who did design a work round for improbox had an idea where this particular skeleton was buried.
One gleam of hope perhaps is that there is a rumour that Gerti now works for Topfield. Perhaps they have got him/her? rewriting the firmware? Perhaps I am just indulging in wishful thinking and groundless rumour mongering. Razz

Richard

Edit; I now more than ever rate this as the main problem with the Toppy; particularly as almost all the other shortcomings in the firmware have been addressed either by firmware updates or TAPs. Clearly this one is never going to be sorted completely by a TAP or someone would have done it by now.

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charley
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:27 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 1563 Location: Belfast
Richard46 wrote:
I seem to remember a post many moons ago from Gerti (author of improbox) explaining the the interupt replay problem was buried deep in the firmware and was carried over from coding used on previous Toppys.
Probably this is the post by Gerti that you were thinking of.

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Richard46
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:29 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 1586 Location: Forest Gate East London
charley wrote:
Probably this is the post by Gerti that you were thinking of.


That's the one I was thinking of charley.

Richard

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sanecyclist
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:29 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 817
moley6knipe, you're right, but given that most of the watchable channels are on multiplexes 1 and 2, the problem shouldn't actually occur all that often.

I agree that it should come up with a choice to either stop watching the current channel or cancel one of the recordings, whereby the first option should automatically be selected after 30s or so, in case you're not actually watching at all.

And most importantly, the dialog box must be clearly worded; "Check Your Reservation" is just abysmal.
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SonicLife
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:41 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 1262
There seem to be two different situations being discussed here, the 1st (as brought up by moley6knipe) is when watching live TV, and I don't have a problem with the way the toppy deals with it, though would like better wording on the screen.

The 2nd situation is when in playback and not watching live TV, and 2 recordings start at the same time when both are on multiplexes that were not tuned to in the background. And in this situation I wonder if a TAP with the following logic could prevent playback being interrupted.

IF 'playback in progress'
AND NOT 'recording 2 things already'
AND '2 recordings are going to start in 2 min'
THEN set tuner 1 to the channel of recording 1

Not that I can write TAPs though, so I await enlightenment from those that can if this is would work.
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Richard46
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:54 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 1586 Location: Forest Gate East London
SonicLife wrote:
There seem to be two different situations being discussed here, the 1st (as brought up by moley6knipe) is when watching live TV, and I don't have a problem with the way the toppy deals with it, though would like better wording on the screen.

The 2nd situation is when in playback and not watching live TV, and 2 recordings start at the same time when both are on multiplexes that were not tuned to in the background. And in this situation I wonder if a TAP with the following logic could prevent playback being interrupted.

IF 'playback in progress'
AND NOT 'recording 2 things already'
AND '2 recordings are going to start in 2 min'
THEN set tuner 1 to the channel of recording 1

Not that I can write TAPs though, so I await enlightenment from those that can if this is would work.


Exactly it is the interupt replay that is ultimately not neccessary. However if a TAP could easily predict this situation and avoid it I guess someone would have already done it. I suspect the only solution to the interupt replay problem is a major Firmware rewrite.

Richard


Last edited by Richard46 on Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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nwhitfield
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:15 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 9579
The interruption happens at the moment so that, if a dual recording does have to take both tuners, when the playback finally stops, the channel shown on screen is the one that was there when playback started.

This avoids the issue - presumably considered confusing to the user, and definitely confusing to the firmware in the attempted fix last year - where you're watching a channel, say BBC1, you start a playback and when it finishes, you're dumped to something else, like ITV4.

Personally, I think users could cope with that. When the interruptions didn't happen, the firmware just dumped you back to what you were watching, buggering up the recording.

Perhaps, though, TAP authors should approach this from a different perspective; instead of dealing with the issue when the playback stops, or watching for the timers to start, why not look at it when the playback starts instead?

Ok, if you have a very busy recording schedule, it you may still get an interruption, but you can at least postpone it, I think.

This is my idea, for something to add to an archive TAP.

If the TAP has the feature, let's called it 'playback protection' enabled, then when you highlight a file and press Play, it won't start right away. Instead it'll display a nice full screen image (or black) to avoid distracting flickers, while it does a quick background check of the next two recordings due to start, and if both are scheduled to happen within the running time of the file (plus a guard time, say 25% to allow for pausing when the pizza arrives), then it changes the two tuners to the appropriate channels for those recordings, before starting the playback.

I think - though I can't be certain without trying it - that that would stop at least the first interruption you're likely to get. Obviously, if you have lots of recordings firing when you're watching, it's unlikely to stop them all, but it should at least stop the first changes from doing anything.

Nigel.

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Richard46
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:32 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 1586 Location: Forest Gate East London
Thanks Nigel that is very interesting. I certainly have no interest in what channel I end up watching after I have watched a recording. As you say (I think) this may confuse the software but I doubt it would much concern a user.
I just want to watch a recording; a process which does not involve tuners at all without constant interuption. This probably most affects people like myself who almost never watch live TV; but who often have simultaneous recordings. A playback protection TAP would maybe be the answer.

Richard

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MikeyP
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:48 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 4818
Richard46 wrote:
Thanks Nigel that is very interesting. I certainly have no interest in what channel I end up watching after I have watched a recording. As you say (I think) this may confuse the software but I doubt it would much concern a user.
I just want to watch a recording; a process which does not involve tuners at all without constant interuption. This probably most affects people like myself who almost never watch live TV; but who often have simultaneous recordings. A playback protection TAP would maybe be the answer.

Richard


it reminds of someone who was saying (in his eyes) the toppy should fall back to another screen (other than current reception) when you turn it on and when it's idle or just finished playing or recording
so you choose what you want to do with it without having to be forced into watching the current live transmission
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Geoff_W
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:49 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Posts: 603
The most irritating thing about this situation is the following situation...

Watching a programme (live) which is being simultaneously recorded and has a 10 minute end padding. I pause the live broadcast for a few minutes due to an interruption, so I'm now chasing by a few minutes. near the end of the timeshifted programme, another timer kicks in and demands I 'Check My Reservation'. Because I definitely want the second recording, I have no choice but to answer 'Yes', whereupon I'm dumped into the new live channel and my timeshift buffer is deleted. So I have to go into the archive, select the still-recording programme and spend a variable amount of time finding where I'd got to, invariably about 30 seconds before the end of the programme.

If someone can fix this ridiculous bug, I'm sure there will be many grateful users on this forum.

Geoff

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Andy K
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:59 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 14 Jun 2005 Posts: 3520
I am not fully with it today, so don't shoot me.

Nigel - Are you saying or To take your idea a different way......

a) Have a TAP to monitor the toppy timer list. 3 mins before the timer is due to fire, the TAP should change spare tuner to the correct channel for the recording. It would need to know which tuner the toppy was going to choose.

Would that resolve the problem ?


b) Or here is a crackingly simple idea !

Get a TAP to change the spare tuner (every 15 mins) to a Mux1 channel or non mux 1 channel, whatever fixes the problem.

Would that fix it ! ? Smile


*

Some though to PIP operation maybe required ?


Getting carried away.. This could be my first TAP ! Smile If only I could understand how to install cygwin thing Rolling Eyes l

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matt
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:24 am Reply with quote
Forum moderator Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 2305 Location: St Ives, Cornwall Transmitter: Redruth
In the past few days, I've become increasingly more despondent about the "flash of black" that you get when you're watching a recording and the Toppy needs to switch tuners and not display the "check your reservations" dialog.

The thing is, it's jammed on black all three times it's had to happen. Why is this?

I can get round it, by changing channel from the black screen and going backto what I was watching, but for some folk it might look like a proper crash.

Any ideas?

matt

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nwhitfield
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:56 am Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 9579
What I was suggestion was not monitoring during playback - which might not even be possible - but approaching it from the other end, by doing checks and setting tuners BEFORE an archive TAP actually starts the playback, since it's the desire to put the tuners onto the channels you were watching before you started playing that is responsible for the interruption.

Nigel.

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