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<  Firmwares, enhancements and upgrades  ~  Fan Installed in Toppy

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Doct0r
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:26 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Posts: 353 Location: Birmingham


Looks promising, I'll have to check them out more. They do look perfect for the job as I could keep the fans internal. Thanks Andy

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scoobydooby
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:59 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 522
jumbo wrote:
I've opted for Sebbys option with a Zalman 92mm F2 (which has a higher throughput than an 80mm and comes with a free resistor cable for lower speed/noise) the soft mounts and one of these for the power supply cable. It required no drilling and having had the benefit of others' experience only took 5 minutes from start to completion! Total cost 12.75.

A few comments:
  • The fan stops when the hard disk spins down. As most heat is generated by the hard disk drive this is good.
  • The soft mounts are excellent, elastic and flexible which allowed me to fit my (larger) fan squarely below the vent holes using 4 mounts (rather than diagonally as in Sebby's picture using two mounts). In the process I did lose the tops of two (out of 8 in the pack) of the mounts due to the sharpness of the vent metal edge! So be gentle as they are not as chewy as Gummy Bears Razz Once again these mounts proved very useful when trying to close the lid as the front edge of the fan was snug against the front of the Toppy - but no problem there either - gently does it.
  • At lower speed the fan is whisper quiet and my cat purrs louder, but at the higher speed (without the resistor in place) it blows a gale force wind and you would notice the noise unless watching Apocalypse Now!

Thanks to Sebby and others for their help/suggestion/advice.


Sorry to resurrect such an old post Jumbo,

I'm curious to know you got the Zalman F2 to fit, having just fitted the HDD in my sig I was a little concerned to notice that its temp was 45-46 deg ish so decided to fit one of these:- http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/zalman-zm-f2-plus-92mm-silent-case-fan-07843192-pdt.html

No way could I get it to line up anywhere near correctly with the vent slats of my 5800t, in the end I positioned the fan where I wanted, it just fits between the HDD & Tuners, but I had to drill 4 holes in the top of the case.

With the fan (including dropping resistor), the HD temp is now 36 deg, straight after dual recording & a simultanious playback.

Are the slat holes positioned differently on the facelift 5800 - does anyone know?

Tony

PS - I'm not a huge lover of PCW/Currys normally, but the item was free delivery & was delivered the second day after ordering which I was quite impressed with, luckily I did buy 2 as they now only supply 4 silicon mounts inside each pack & like Jumbo I mullered 2 of them initially.

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andyfras
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:43 pm Reply with quote
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scoobydooby wrote:
Are the slat holes positioned differently on the facelift 5800 - does anyone know?

They are the same.

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peterainbow
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:40 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 09 Jan 2011 Posts: 23
has anyone tested what the temps are with different orientations of the box

eg having the box sideways with the psu unit at the top

was wondering whether you would get a chimney effect like this and so get more cooling?
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Wallace
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:28 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 911
I recently changed my HDD and SATA >PATA adaptor because of disk errors (from a Samsung back to a Western Digital). Anyway, the WD HDD ran considerably hotter than the Samsung and I was concerned for the longterm 'health' of the other internal components.

I had previously cut a small hole in the back of the Toppy behind the HDD cradle and fitted a fan to expel the warm air. However, I noticed that this had little overall effect in reducing the temp of the HDD.

As an experiment, I cut a hole in the cradle that supports the HDD and also a hole directly below it in the Toppy's case moving the fan under the HDD attached to the cradle too. I fitted 'chimney' around the fan so that the warm would be directly expelled from the Toppy and not simply moving the air around within the Toppy.

To my surprise, the temp of the HDD dropped by 10 degrees you could really feel the difference when you touch the Toppy.

So, the real reason for resurrecting this thread is to pass on my findings and recommend that if you do fit a fan, the best position I have found is directly under the HDD blowing warm air away from the disk.

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jumbo
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:08 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 11 Apr 2005 Posts: 4731
Wallace wrote:
So, the real reason for resurrecting this thread is to pass on my findings and recommend that if you do fit a fan, the best position I have found is directly under the HDD blowing warm air away from the disk.
No! No! No! Your reading (whatever is reported by HDDInfo) is in fact distorted because you are superficially "cooling" the sensor itself. Back to thermodynamics 101 and Newton's Law of Cooling! Of course you are cooling the drive somewhat but, the main idea behind cooling the Toppy is to take heat away from the "other" components. Your hard drive sensor is telling you that "it" is cool which does not imply that the rest of the Toppy is optimally cooled.
Also remember
"A common misconception is that a colder hard drive will last longer than a hotter hard drive. A study by Google showed the reverse to be true. Hard drives with average temperatures below 27 C had a failure rate worse than hard drives with the highest reported average temperature of 50 C, and a failure rate at least twice as high as the optimum temperature range of 37 C to 46 C"
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alan_m
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:44 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3523
jumbo wrote:

"A common misconception is that a colder hard drive will last longer than a hotter hard drive. A study by Google showed the reverse to be true. Hard drives with average temperatures below 27 C had a failure rate worse than hard drives with the highest reported average temperature of 50 C, and a failure rate at least twice as high as the optimum temperature range of 37 C to 46 C"


But what are the operating conditions for disks in the report? The results may only be true for Google's banks of server disks kept at that temperature 24/7/365 in a temperature controlled environment.

The results would be probably be a lot different for a disk that is always switched on at the (low) surrounding ambient temperature and always switched off when the disk temperature is at its highest, perhaps twice or three times a day. Temperature cycling is also factor in component failure.

On my two Toppys with fans fitted the temperature tends to sit at around 40C and can rise by another 10 or 15C with no fans.


Last edited by alan_m on Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:07 am; edited 1 time in total

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Wallace
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:44 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 911
@Jumbo.
I am quite aware that the sensor providing the temperature reading is in the HDD and as such is being cooled by the fan.

The reading before fan was 55 degrees and <42 with the fan fitted. Nowhere near the quoted figures from that Google extract, so that was irrelevance to this case IMHO.

OK, you say the sensor is being superficially cooled, I cannot argue against that, however, the whole Toppy feels and IS much cooler with the fans working. I can feel the warm air being expelled.

Even if you disregard the actual temperature readings, the Toppy is absolutely MUCH cooler to touch, in fact, barely warm.

Although I said that I moved the fan in my original post, that was wrong. I meant say I fitted an additional fan on the HDD. I currently have two fans (both 40mm). One on the HDD and the other on the back of the Toppy's case, although I will probably disconnect this in the near future as overkill.

Good enough for me.

edit:

Thank you alan_m. I completely agree with you.

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alan_m
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:03 am Reply with quote
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jumbo wrote:
Wallace wrote:
So, the real reason for resurrecting this thread is to pass on my findings and recommend that if you do fit a fan, the best position I have found is directly under the HDD blowing warm air away from the disk.
No! No! No! Your reading (whatever is reported by HDDInfo) is in fact distorted because you are superficially "cooling" the sensor itself. Back to thermodynamics 101 and Newton's Law of Cooling! Of course you are cooling the drive somewhat but, the main idea behind cooling the Toppy is to take heat away from the "other" components. Your hard drive sensor is telling you that "it" is cool which does not imply that the rest of the Toppy is optimally cooled.


I don't think that a fan blowing away from the disk would locally cool the disks temperature sensor more than the rest of the disk.

Just simply fixing a slow running fan to the inside of the top cover of the Toppy (blowing outwards) seems to produce just as much "cooling" as all the more sophisticated methods requiring holes to be drilled and chimneys made Smile

Blowing the hot air downwards seems to be counter intuitive.

The biggest problem in a Toppy is the PSU capacitors and if you can reduce the operating temperature of the inside of the case by, say, 10C you can get a significant improvement in their life expectancy. Perhaps by fitting a fan to the right hand side of the disk (as seen from the front) heat from the disk doesn't travel to the left to heat up the PSU.


Last edited by alan_m on Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total

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Wallace
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:14 am Reply with quote
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There is obviously more than one way to achieve similar results. I chose to fit the fan underneath the HDD and expel the warm air downwards. I appreciate you normally would expect warm air to be removed from the top (heat rises).
I don't believe the PSU generates too much heat in itself, the HDD is the worst culprit for heat generation. In fact I think it acts like a radiator within the Toppy case heating the air around it. If I can reduce the temperature of the HDD I will reduce the overall temp within the Toppy.

Using HDDinfo as a reference, both alan_m and I seem to have achieved similar results.

As I said previously, even if you disregard the actual temperature readings provided by HDDinfo, the Toppy is much cooler to touch so surely the fan/fans are having the desired effect?

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jumbo
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:33 am Reply with quote
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Wallace: I don't dispute your fan(s) cooling effect. What I am saying is that for the Toppy the optimal position for a (single) fan is to extract heat from top. That of course assumes "free-air" around the cage.
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Wallace
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:56 am Reply with quote
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@Jumbo
I agree with you. The trouble is, the space within a 5810 is very limited making the placing of a fan internally very awkward. I did not want to spoil the external aesthetics of the Toppy by fitting an externally mounted fan, especially on the top of the unit.

I have plenty of air-gap around the unit, including slightly raised rubber feet for the Toppy to sit on, thus improving air flow from the base of the unit.

My post was not to generate an argument, I simply wanted to share what I have found to be useful - in my case.

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katfish
Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:24 am Reply with quote
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I Fitted my Fan today and I fitted it over the PSU fitted lovely as it a 2" CPU fan running at high speed.

I took temp reading from inside the toppy b4 fan during recording and that was 56c

after fan install under same conditions 41c

even though its a high speed fan I can not hear it at all when TV is on.

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pearce_jj
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:19 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 23 Feb 2010 Posts: 25
Just as an alernative, after fitting a WD 2.5" HDD, without a fan the temperatures seem to stabalise at about 50*C (PSU heatsinks), 38*C (HDD top surface) and 60*C (main CPU), as measured with an infrared 'gun' type non-contact thermometer and 23*C ambient or so.

Obviously I removed the top case to take the measurments, but made them as quickly as I could with the system still on (!). The box feels warm over the PSU but is otherwise quite cool.

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aramil
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:15 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 649 Location: Worcester, UK ; TX:Malvern Central
Ok easier to show than describe here is my push/pull "+pressure" fan setup:

Fan PULLING air from bellow (This is now a Zalman 92mm F2 will update pic when I next open case)



Fan Pushing air up out of case



Pins Attached to Lid




Edit after some testing HDD temps before where around 51-55 (after an hours abuse) and now with fans 41-44 (again after an hours abuse)

Hope this helps

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