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<  Firmwares, enhancements and upgrades  ~  Feature Request

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Ugly--Kid--Joe
Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 10:41 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 05 May 2005 Posts: 1472 Location: Cornwall
Hi, Im new. Sorry if this has been mentioned before or is posted in the wrong place, but the fast forward and rewind is just not adequate 2X 4X 6X. How about a 30X like Sky + who?s ever going to use the 2X ( you may as well just watch it Rolling Eyes ) If you could add this as a new feature request.
Thanks
Ross
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rodneyfoy
Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 12:19 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 02 Apr 2005 Posts: 66
I believe there are hardware reasons why faster FF cannot be achieved by a software update.

I find 6x too slow at the moment, but anticipate the 30 second skip function we should get this week will make up for it.
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nwhitfield
Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 12:24 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 9579
The 6x speed apparently relates to the maximum speed specification of the CAM slot. You could go faster if you didn't have to go through the CAM, but then you'd have to explain to people why some channels could offer faster faster forward than others.

Sky, of course, uses embedded CA stuff, and so presumably doesn't have to worry about being as compatible with a range of CAMs; they can optimise everything since they own the whole system, end to end.

Anyway, this is an enhancement request, so it's going to be moved to the TAPs, Enhancements and upgrades area. I don't think there's a huge point in adding a feature request, since it seems to be a hardware limitation, but I'm persuadable on that point.

Nigel.

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sebw
Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 12:48 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 05 Apr 2005 Posts: 293 Location: Southampton
I think the > 6X speed should be available on all channels not using the CAM slot.

I would hazard a guess that most people using a Toppy will never use the CAM slots and so should not be penalised in this way.
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Ugly--Kid--Joe
Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 12:54 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 05 May 2005 Posts: 1472 Location: Cornwall
Thanks for the info, as sebw says it should be available for all channels not using the CAM slot. We will have to wait and see.
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nwhitfield
Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 1:01 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 9579
I can see that it's appealing - I'd like to do it myself. But from a user interface and support point of view, it's a nightmare.

There are times when, just because something might be possible with a bit of programming, it isn't necessarily desirable from every point of view.

From a support point of view, if you had the ability to do this on material that didn't need a CAM, you'd then potentially have customers asking why they couldn't do it with all their recordings. Or even why - if a recording is partially unencrypted - it works on the first half of a recording and not on the second.

You then have to try and explain to them that it's a limitation of the CAM, to people who may not had any idea about such things, especially if the kit was bought for them.

If you were managing a support team, you might well reach the conclusion that it would cause you as many headaches as it would solve.

Still, if lots of people do want it, I'll add it to the feature list later, so you can respond to it and Topfield can see how much support there is.

Nigel.

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Davec
Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 1:02 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 21 Location: Leeds
Another vote for the feature request, please.
(i.e. faster ff and rewind, if only on non-CAM channels).
Skipping through the adverts is a major pain at the moment, which will only be partially helped by the 30 sec skip forward feature (though that is very welcome!). With no 10 sec skip back key (which I believe the Oz version has), there's going to be some fiddly rewinding still required.

Dave
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nwhitfield
Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 1:15 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 9579
A poll regarding CAM usage has been added to the Freeview and TopUp section of the site:

http://www.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435

Nigel.

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DX
Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 2:34 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Posts: 2695
I understand the point that different ffwd speeds on different channels is difficult to explain.

How about making the decision based on whether or not a CAM is fitted, rather than being used? All channels and recordings would then behave the same on any given machine, but non-TUTV subscribers could still have the faster speeds.
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Davec
Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 2:50 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 21 Location: Leeds
The CAM limitation is presumably only on playing back files not unencrypted during the recording process (e.g if you were watching another TopUpTV channel while recording). This would be a small minority of recordings probably. Surely the manual could say (under ff and rewind) that "programs which require unencryption are limited to 6x fast-forward").
Please don't encourage them to cripple Toppies with CAMs...
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DX
Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 3:52 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Posts: 2695
I'm wasn't encouraging them to cripple Toppies with CAMs - all Toppies are currently crippled whether or not a CAM is fitted. A TUTV user would be unaffected by this change, and everyone else would only benefit. (BTW I have a CAM fitted, so I wouldn't personally gain here).

Personally I wouldn't be bothered by different ffwd/rew speeds on different channels, especially if I wasn't told. On a TiVo you have 3 speeds, but they don't give a figure. Would people even notice if x6 was actually running a bit faster on some channels? Maybe if it was really x100, but would x10 be obvious? How sure are you that x6 is really x6 anyway?
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waistcoat
Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 7:14 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 04 Apr 2005 Posts: 109 Location: Welwyn Garden City [CP Transmitter]
I can't see the problem with a line in the manual that says, "recordings from pay to view tv channels are limited to 6x fast forward speed" and simply have the ff toggle as below:

pay tv channels: 2x -> 4x -> 6x
freeview channels: 2x -> 4x -> 6x -> 8x -> whatever is appropriate

-Waistcoat
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Roger
Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 3:50 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 13 May 2005 Posts: 2
Davec wrote:
Surely the manual could say (under ff and rewind) that "programs which require unencryption are limited to 6x fast-forward").

Agreed. This gives the maximum possible functionality and a simple explanation for the rare case where the speed is limited. It would also have the advantage of making the unit more attractrive to prospective buyers looking at tick box comparisons with other models. This is one of the few areas in which the Toppy loses out.

One of the benefits of upgrading from a VCR is the clear ff and rw search capabilities, however the Toppy doesn't make the most of this and ends up being slower than my old VCR.
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nwhitfield
Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 4:29 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 9579
Now added to the bug & feature tracking database as item 43, an existing feature change request "Increase speed of fast forward and rewind"

Services users can rate and respond via http://www.toppy.org.uk/services/bug_info.php?bid=43

Nigel.

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onetoppyuser
Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:25 am Reply with quote
Joined: 04 Sep 2005 Posts: 1
I've been considering whether to buy a Topfield or a Sagem and want to buy one or the other within the next couple of weeks. I really want to know, before making a decision, whether there is any chance that this 6x seek limit will be fixed, ever?

It is most likely going to be a deal-breaker. It's a very, very essential piece of day-to-day UI interaction, so it really has to work well. A limit of 6x on the speed, for this type of device is not "working well". 30-second and 10-second jumps are not a suitable substitute either, because they lack real-time visual feedback.

I have to say, every other feature comparison makes me want to buy a Toppy, even if it is more expensive than some and the software QA seems a little suspect. However it's a close call and I might be tempted to just save a lot of money, buy a cheaper box now and wait for much more refined models to come out in a year or so.

If this feature were implemented, or at least there was a commitment to implement it in the next firmware release, I would definitely go for a Toppy without question.
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