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CD3660
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:09 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 09 Apr 2005 Posts: 344 Location: Cheshire, UK
underquark wrote:
Imagine if a garage had a pump that dispensed free petrol and then - one day - you found the pump empty because the garage owner had not anticipated that it was about to run empty so soon but he had fully intended to fill it again just as soon as he had the time. If you couldn't get to work that day because you had no petrol then I'd say that you would have to shoulder a fair part of the blame yourself.


Excellent analogy! Smile

BobD wrote:
It can be a little hard to read some of the posts here after you have just spent many (many, many) long hours getting a new version ready to release. So just as we can see things from the point of view of you users, so some people need to try to see things from ours.


You are a better man than me BobD - my dummy would have hurtled to the floor at the first whiff of dissent! Rolling Eyes

_________________
TF5800 Black Panther 250GB (x2)
Firmware: 5.13.65 (MyStuff Recommended Version)
Transmitter: Winter Hill.
Autostart TAPs (in load order): MyStuff 5.62a, Quickjump 1.71, eit2mei beta 7.8m3, ImproBox 2.1 RC8a, MeiSearch 1.35, UK Timers 1.2a, and Tap Commander 1.32
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pc1962
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:10 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 23
Bawbagg wrote:

Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed
The team are mortally embarrased about this. We're sorry that you're losing CTs.

I know BobD has already commented on this - but as a member of the team let me just state (for the public record)...... at NO POINT during the 3500 emails we exchanged during the development of 4.5 did we ONCE mention the expiry of 4.03.

It really is a complete coincidence that it happened the day after we released 4.5. A ridiculous coincidence... I know... but a coincidence nontheless. The reception in this thread that BobD (and the team) have had as a result of this (monumental) cock-up has been pretty harsh. We've learnt a tough lesson on this one.

Would the comments be the same if 4.03 had expired and there was NO NEW public release???? I suspect not. It would have been a nasty situation, and we'd have had to deal with it. I'm disgusted at those who have discussed/proposed a conspiracy. And I'm fairly disgusted at the tone of a lot of these posts.

It's not right to be fuming. I know you must be frustrated, but you mustn't be fuming. That's not in the spirit of this forum, and not in the spirit of MyStuff. I'm not aiming this post directly in response of pc1962 (quoted). It's also aimed at all the recent complaint posts in this thread. Please bear in mind you exercised your choice when you loaded MyStuff on your's and your friend's and family's machines. It is YOUR responsibility to fix it. That's generally the way free software works. Use it at your own risk.

The only reason this incident has occured is because MyStuff is free. If BobD were charging for this then fair enough - you have cause for complaint. But he's not. If you donated, then good show (and again... we're sorry we cocked up). If not, then donate. If MyStuff was a charge-for product, then we might have spent the last 10 months developing a rock solid anti-theft process, and MyStuff might be without half the features it has today.

Major issues, like this, are the main reason BobD does not (and is likely not to) introduce charging for MyStuff.

Please, no more complaints on what is essentially free software. We've taken the comments on board (just the same way we take on comments about wanting any other changes made). They're now in Hyde's Changelog Very Happy.

Please return to the spirit of the forum - if you have a problem, please post it, and we'll do what we can to help. With a Very Happy.

'Nuff said.

BB


Fair enough BB, and very well put. Today I see things from a slightly different perspective and understand where you are coming from. I've really have no defense for that post and really should have waited until today to post.

Please accept my apologies Embarassed

I really do think though, that to allow users to use this wonderful software unimpeded, why not give the opportunity to buy a "full" version with no expiry date instead of the donation route. I would gladly pay for this software as I'm sure many other people would. Those that chose to go the limited version route have the expiry built in.

It is also appreciated that we have actually someone to talk directly to and discuss any issues we may have with the software, although some of us may occationally step over the mark.. Embarassed Embarassed .


Please keep up the good work and let me know if I can either donate or buy a full version.


Once again please accept my apologies.
PC1962
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IanMaurice
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:52 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 85
I continue to be amazed and grateful that BobD and the team put in so much effort to make what is certainly the best TAP ever. Well done!

Fortunately I upgraded to 4.5 before 4.03 became deceased, so I did not experience its demise personally.

I'm glad that BobD has said that he will make future versions not expire. But I also agree with others who have said that there should not be a nag screen (perhaps unless it is intended to force people to make a payment for a nag-free version). I don't really think that support issues would be greatly different if you allowed older versions to work -- you can always say that older versions are not fully supported. Please don't spoil such a wonderful TAP for such a minor thing.

4.5 does seem to work (and the new features are excellent) but it is not absolutely and exactly compatible with the previous version and is not absolutely and completely polished. I have number of minor issues with it (none too serious so far) which I will post to the 4.5 forum.
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LordCake
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:32 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 03 Jul 2005 Posts: 217 Location: Manchester
Another vote to ask very nicely that you consider having "no expiry / no nags", please, in future versions.

Great TAP, v4.5 working well (like the automove to folder and the new default theme). Thank you BobD and team.

Very Happy

_________________
Model: TF5800PVR F/ware: 5.13.65EfNfCyXpXwSXlUUuHPTCeGmSrUxEsRs Xmitter: Winter Hill Q: ~100% S: 76-95% Aerial: Group C/D bandpass filter Taps: MyStuff v4.54d, RemoteExtender v1.5, deselect v1.0Connected: Toppy<->undeclocked debianSLUG + iguanaIR running: ftpd-topfield, rt2mei, bleb2tie & lirc
EPG data for radio channels: http://my.opera.com/bleb2tie/
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richieg261
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:02 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 29
LordCake wrote:
Another vote to ask very nicely that you consider having "no expiry / no nags", please, in future versions.

Great TAP, v4.5 working well (like the automove to folder and the new default theme). Thank you BobD and team.

Very Happy


I also second all the above comments. But please take time to really consider if you need to put *any* time-related spam notification, let alone time-expiry code. As excellent as your software is, which can be unquestioned as the must-have TAP for the Topfield PVR, hidden code that alters the running of software (even periodic notifications of updates) will always put their developers in bad light, if there is no way to over-ride or hide it afterwards.

_________________
Toppy TF5800PVR-160 Silver

Firmware: 5.12.88

TAPs: MyStuff 5.0, Description Extender 2.01, RemoteExtender 1.3, eit2mei B7.7
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Sebby
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:16 pm Reply with quote
Site helper Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 1199 Location: London
I think the fact of the matter here, though, is that this is free software with no warranty implied or otherwise, and so the normal rules don't necessarily apply. I can completely understand why it may be a problem for people if a TAP unexpectedly expires, but due to its nature, the developer (Bob) can do as he sees fit. So if that is to have an expiration to make support easier, then so be it.

Smile

_________________
TF5810, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009
TAPs: SecCache (UK) v0.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.3; TAP Commander 1.34; EIT Sub v0.6; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.5;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 19/12/10
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LordCake
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:03 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 03 Jul 2005 Posts: 217 Location: Manchester
Of course Bob can do as he sees fit, but he and the team have also said they will take note of user requests, so I can see absolutly no objection to making polite requests to Bob to consider removing expiry/nags etc in future versions. As far as I know this thread is the mechanism to do that.

_________________
Model: TF5800PVR F/ware: 5.13.65EfNfCyXpXwSXlUUuHPTCeGmSrUxEsRs Xmitter: Winter Hill Q: ~100% S: 76-95% Aerial: Group C/D bandpass filter Taps: MyStuff v4.54d, RemoteExtender v1.5, deselect v1.0Connected: Toppy<->undeclocked debianSLUG + iguanaIR running: ftpd-topfield, rt2mei, bleb2tie & lirc
EPG data for radio channels: http://my.opera.com/bleb2tie/
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IanWorthington
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:19 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 229
Many thanks to BobD and team -- Even though 4.03 had expired and I therefore couldn't record my settings before I upgraded, and consequently feared for the worst, pressure from SWMBO forced me to go for it late last night anyway.

Couldn't have been easier: dropped right in, picked up my old settings, no problems. Way to go guys.

There is a mysterious clash on Saturday I couldn't figure out, but that may well be because of my need for sleep.

The HD does though rattle like a demon now ever few minutes -- I'm guessing that's the refresh of EPG data every 5mins. Every *5* mins! Seems like overkill to me: I can see that getting changed very soon, the Toppy living in our bedroom.

Once again, thanks guys for a tremendous job.

i
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Sebby
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:44 am Reply with quote
Site helper Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 1199 Location: London
IanWorthington wrote:
The HD does though rattle like a demon now ever few minutes -- I'm guessing that's the refresh of EPG data every 5mins. Every *5* mins! Seems like overkill to me: I can see that getting changed very soon, the Toppy living in our bedroom.

Check out option H4; this can be changed. I use rt2mei, so have set it to never.

There's a new manual available. Also, there's a new thread for version 4.5.

Smile

_________________
TF5810, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009
TAPs: SecCache (UK) v0.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.3; TAP Commander 1.34; EIT Sub v0.6; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.5;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 19/12/10
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IanWorthington
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:57 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 229
Not sure setting it to never's such a good idea, unless you're powering down your Toppy after receiving the RT data.

I use that too, running on a slug with updates at 0900 and 1700 (I think, to allow for overrunning football games).

But, as you say, this is best discussed in the new thread: I just wanted to give my upgrade experiences to all those who were caught out by the death of 403
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Sebby
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:40 pm Reply with quote
Site helper Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 1199 Location: London
My Toppy is connected to my laptop, and so I tend to only run rt2mei once or twices a week. As a result, I reload the data manually once the data has copied across, so for me, it makes more sense to be set to never. Smile

_________________
TF5810, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009
TAPs: SecCache (UK) v0.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.3; TAP Commander 1.34; EIT Sub v0.6; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.5;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 19/12/10
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Meanteam
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:09 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 3
I'll admit I've only read the last couple of pages of this thread. I was an avid reader a few months ago when my parents bought their toppy, but once set up with the TAPs of choice, I've not needed to come back...until now.

My parents reported earlier that "their box was now obsolete". My first port of call was here to see if it was anything obvious. So, it appears that MyStuff has been built with a pre-determined life span. Was this announced upon release or was it always intended to pop-up one day to remind us to upgrade?

I wanted to provide my parents with the best compromise of functionality and ease of use as possible which is why I installed MyStuff. Before I make the 300 mile trip to Cornwall to sort the box out, I need to ask a couple of questions.

Is the current release stable enough to be used for a good few months without too many problems? Bear in mind that they have no possibility of upgrading the software themselves, so it can only be done when I visit or they can bring the box to me.

Has the current build got expiry code in it or has it got the nag screens that will pop up from time to time? If the nag screens are there, how intrusive are they. To be honest, as good as MyStuff is, it's probably going to be too much of a hassle to keep the software up to date and I'll end up talking them through a removal process over the phone.

I appreciate the time spent creating the tap, the fact that is free and that it is installed and used at our own risk. It may be worth thinking about the real life implications for the people using the software though. I generally find a piece of software I like and only need to install a later version if there are new features or it is discovered the old version has security issues etc. I was hoping the same would apply here.
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Richard46
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:18 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 1586 Location: Forest Gate East London
Meanteam see Bobs post on page 141.

_________________
TF5800 Silver;5.13.40 TF5800 Black; 5.12.88 TAPs: MYStuff /OneList v2; DeadBeefs TF5000 Display v1.42; Remote Extender 1.5; Description Extender 2.1; mcgCYRResume V1;MforR3NST; +on one Toppy DumbWidescreenTV2.31EPG info: eit2mei b7.7 beta Taps not auto:TAPCommander; RadioDelete Remotes: Harmony 655 & 885 TX: Crystal Palace
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Meanteam
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:24 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 3
Yes thanks. I've just read it.

BobD wrote:

4.5 will start to warn you (every 20 uses of N&N or EPG) that it is unsupported from 1/12/06 - it will do this by displaying text on the N&N/EPG box for 10 seconds, or until a key is pressed, at which point this text will be replaced by the usual contents of N&N/EPG.

Then, from 1/03/07, MyStuff 4.5 will expire completely (ie display a warning box on startup) and then close itself.

This gives everyone a 3 month period from being warned about expiry to having to replace MyStuff.


I think this is reason enough for me to make the phone call to talk them through the removal procedure, and then sort out an alternative for when I next have access to the box. These expiry messages will only serve to confuse anyone who hasn't been responsible for actually installing the software on the box and a three month window to expiry isn't long enough to gaurantee that I'll be able to keep their software up to date.

Ah well. Back to the drawing board.
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chunkywizard
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:41 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 13 May 2005 Posts: 9319 Location: Sindlesham, Berkshire Tx: Hannington
Hi Meanteam,

just wait a bit. It is looking like that the next version of MyStuff (4.51) will *never* expire, just explain it is out of date once or twice a day (depending on how much you use it). We are currently finalising this after all the feedback we have had. You should only have to upgrade it once a year-ish (depending on the final dates that get used). This will be all explained properly when 4.51 is released. Then you should have the information to make a decision on whether or not you can install and support MyStuff on your parents Toppy.

CW

_________________
Toppy:TF5800 F/W: 1365PaTcHeD
TAPs: MyStuff | EPG2MEI | FontManager | SecCache UK | Extend | FastScanGUI | EIT_sub_game | MyInfo | ScreenCapture with OSD | MHEG On/Off
MyStuff Manual & Logos | Known Bugs | Recommended F/W
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