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jam2000
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:48 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 15 Apr 2005 Posts: 7
Hi,

I am awaiting the delivery of my Toppy tomorrow, but just wondered, will there be any over the air updates like the other boxes get?
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nwhitfield
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:48 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 9579
From the FAQ page:

Can the firmware be upgraded?

Yes. Firmware can be upgraded by download from a PC using either a serial connection or a USB cable. It should also be possible to upgrade over the air (OTA).

To expand on that, we're waiting for clarification from Topfield/Turbosat about whether or not that will be done in the UK. It's not done in Australia, but then they don't seem to have quite as well developed a national DTT infrastructure as we do here (hardly surprising, given the size of the place!)

Nigel.

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MysticMouflon
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:21 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 15
OTA updates are fundamental for me. If a product, especially of the complexity of a PVR, is being sold for our DTT system, then OTA updates should be both supported and supplied.
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nwhitfield
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:47 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 9579
I still can't give you a definitive answer on this, I'm afraid. I'll let you know as soon as I hear more from Turbosat.

Nigel.
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pesky
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:22 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 61 Location: North of England.
nwhitfield wrote:
I still can't give you a definitive answer on this, I'm afraid. I'll let you know as soon as I hear more from Turbosat.

Strangely, I can help a little. The 5800 has the same OTA update firmware in that another model in the 5000 range has (I got a friend with one to dump memory for me). So if the filrmware can be broadcast in the same way as the one for the other model, it will pick it up and use it. However, the other model is a satellite model and it's possible that the DTG have particular requirements for software updates which mean that a new format has to be used. I don't know if our format for OTA upgrades is the same as that used in Germany.

So I can only help to this extent: it may be possible now. However, even if it isn't, one firmware upgrade done by computer might enable subsequent upgrades to be done OTA.
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MysticMouflon
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:26 am Reply with quote
Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 15
Thanks for the info.

Say I do buy a Toppy and find that OTA updates won't happen, then I will have to resort to using my PC if I want to update it. Now, does the Toppy need to be connected to a TV (to respond to prompts etc.) and/or an aerial when it is being updated or TAPped, or is this purely something that's handled by the transfer software (the name of which escapes me at the moment) on my PC. The reason I ask is that I don't have a computer near my TV (and I don't want one near it either!).
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nwhitfield
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:42 am Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 9579
You can certainly do TAPs and file transfers without needing a monitor; if I'm just tinkering, I don't turn the TV on. Just plug the USB cable in and fire up the software on the Mac. You don't need to change anything on the Toppy for that to happen.

According to the documentation for the TF5000 firmware upgrades, you don't need to do anything on screen for a firmware update - it's simply a matter of starting the software on your PC, then turning on the Toppy and it will automatically grab the firmware from the PC (via serial or USB).

There is a menu option for firmware updates, but that actually relates to a rather neat feature - you can link two boxes with a serial cable, and send the firmware from one to the other. Again, though, you only look at what's happening on the 'donor' screen; the receiving box just updates automatically when it's turned on.

For the satellite updates, however, you do have to point the box at the appropriate place, and enter the satellite information in a menu, then tell it to go get the firmware.

Obviously things will be a little different on a DTT version; I guess it's ultimately going to depend on the requirements of the DTG; they did test the Toppy for compatibility before launch, but I don't know if that was simply for things like MHEG, or if the investigated compatibility with engineering channel updates.

Nigel.
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MysticMouflon
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:03 am Reply with quote
Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 15
Thanks, Nigel.

Could you point me towards a thread/document that lists the suggestions for fixes/enhancements made to Turbosat/Topfield for the next(/first) update? Have they said what they intend to fix/improve?
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nwhitfield
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:12 am Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 9579
You can see the wishlist suggestions in the topic of a similar name in the TAPs, enhancements and upgrades forum.

There's also a thread http://www.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=127 called NEW UPDATE SOON, in which I've posted the details of which things Topfield/Turbosat have given responses to.

I hope to have more information later - I've emailed Turbosat with a few more questions, and drawn to their attention some of the issues that have come up, or been better reported since the original list was drawn up.

Nigel.
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Markynuts
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:42 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 38 Location: Romsey, Hants
I'm hoping guys that my little (but massively useful) memory stick will come in handy for me. My computer is far away from my Toppy (OK, I get delivery of it tomorrow!) but the inclusion of USB for downloading should allow this...? Erm... am I correct in this assumption?
Keep smiling...

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nwhitfield
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:51 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 9579
Unfortunately not; USB devices come in two flavours, hosts and things that aren't hosts, for which I forget the proper name.

But, essentially, unlike Firewire, which is clever, USB is not. It relies on there being one host device to control data transfers, and that's usually the controller card in a PC.

While other devices may have a fair bit of intelligence - like a Toppy, or a laser printer - they don't have the necessary host controller parts of the USB link, so they can only themselves be connected to something that does have them.

So, you can connect your Toppy to a PC, since the PC is the controller, and sees the Toppy as more or less a hard drive. But you can't connect a printer or a disk drive, or a memory stick to the Toppy, because you still wouldn't have a host controller to make everything work.

This difference between the two ends of a USB link is one of the reasons why they each have a different shaped socket. In normal circumstances, you can't even attempt to connect together two devices that both lack a controller.

Nigel.
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