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caned_monkey
Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 3:15 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Oct 2009 Posts: 107 Location: London
Hello,

I have just acquired a Sony STR-DA2400ES receiver which has the ability to convert component and composite video to HMDI. The Topfield has composite and Scart out but no component.

I?ve heard composite is crap so I?d like to be able to use the component inputs on the receiver but obviously I don?t have a component out on the Topfield so I want to know if I can use these cables to convert the signal to the receiver:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scart-to-3-RCA-Phono-RGB-video-cable-1-5M-gold-plated-plugs-OFC-component-/390883355578?hash=item5b0276abba:g:c~IAAOSwwPtTv7V5&clk_rvr_id=1025555651013&rmvSB=true

I?ve heard that you need a converter box to convert Scart to component so I'm not sure if these cables will work. The manual of the receiver shows how it can convert to HDMI on page 32 here:

http://pdf.crse.com/manuals/3289204423.pdf

The component sockets are red, green and blue like the cables so it looks like it would work but goes against everything I've read so far.

Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks

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alan_m
Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 5:33 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3523
caned_monkey wrote:
Hello,

I have just acquired a Sony STR-DA2400ES receiver which has the ability to convert component and composite video to HMDI. The Topfield has composite and Scart out but no component.

I?ve heard composite is crap so I?d like to be able to use the component inputs on the receiver but obviously I don?t have a component out on the Topfield so I want to know if I can use these cables to convert the signal to the receiver:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scart-to-3-RCA-Phono-RGB-video-cable-1-5M-gold-plated-plugs-OFC-component-/390883355578?hash=item5b0276abba:g:c~IAAOSwwPtTv7V5&clk_rvr_id=1025555651013&rmvSB=true

I?ve heard that you need a converter box to convert Scart to component so I'm not sure if these cables will work. The manual of the receiver shows how it can convert to HDMI on page 32 here:

http://pdf.crse.com/manuals/3289204423.pdf

The component sockets are red, green and blue like the cables so it looks like it would work but goes against everything I've read so far.

Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks


Assuming a 5800.

A 5800 outputs composite, RGB, component (YUV/YCrCb/YPbPr) and S video. Component is available on the SCART socket. You can buy a SCART to component lead and then from the Toppy menu set the output to be YUV. The cable you link should work

The SCART socket uses the same pins for both RGB (Red Green Blue) and for component. It's the setting of the Toppy menu that determines what comes out of the SCART pins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCART

pin 7 = blue for RGB and Pb/Cb for component
pin 11 = green for RGB and Y for component
pin 15 = red for RGB and Pr/Cr for component

If you get a cable with the phono plugs coloured red green and blue you just have to use the above comparison to plug them into the correct amp inputs.

You could also connect the audio to you Sony amp by way of an optical digital cable (SPDIF). The Toppy has a SPDIF audio output. SPDIF also known as TOSLink

The best you will get from your Toppy will be ProLogic II on transmissions where the stereo audio is encoded this way. However this is often way better than the TV speaker sound quality and on some programs can give a good surround sound experience.

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Laser
Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 6:09 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 441
Obviously I don't know your motivations for wanting/needing to do this, but I tried this some years ago.

The component mode on the Toppy is over-saturated and there is a firmware patch to fix that. Even so, I felt that the resulting picture never looked right at all. As such I eventually gave up, connected the SCART direct to the TV in RGB mode and connected the SPDIF to the receiver.

Not all modern TVs have the ability to have SCART connected, although some have an adapter dongle shipped with them.

Still, it's simple to try the component mode to see what you think for yourself and cheaper (albeit probably nastier) alternatives exist than your ebay link. Eg: Amazon

EDIT: Sorry wrong Amazon link posted. Now updated. This forum went offline 30 seconds after my post!

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caned_monkey
Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 9:12 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Oct 2009 Posts: 107 Location: London
OK thanks both that's really helpful.

I wanted to use the converter in the amp because I wanted to benefit from the upscaling to to 1080p that it provides. I didn't realise that scart could have different settings although I probably set it to RGB when I first got the box, I used that setting because it worked and then never gave it a second thought after that.

Someone just told me that if I use scart straight to TV then an HD TV will upscale the image itself but as it turns out I was only using a composite scart cable and again, I didn't realise there were different types of scart cable.

Turns out I know far less about this than I thought, you live and learn Embarassed

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alan_m
Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 11:19 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3523
caned_monkey wrote:

Someone just told me that if I use scart straight to TV then an HD TV will upscale the image itself but as it turns out I was only using a composite scart cable and again, I didn't realise there were different types of scart cable.


True

A HD capable TV will up-scale SD irrespective of the source. Not all up-scaling engines are equal and up-scaling in an external box may be better than the up-scaling in the TV OR visa versa.

A fully wired SCART cable can carry a variety of different formats, some in parallel.

SCART can output RGB and composite in parallel or component and composite in parallel. The composite signal has a dedicated pin. That's why you have to set both ends of the link for the same standard. If you set the Toppy for RGB you then need to go into the TVs menus and set its AV input to RGB or else it may default to composite.

Some SCART cables supplied with equipment may not have been fully populated, or be of the best quality and may have had limited functionality. Although now going out of fashion SCART cables with all 21 pins connected and with signal lines being individually screened are available for a couple of quid.

www.admac.myzen.co.uk/scart2

BTW, UK HD broadcasts are 1080i at 50Hz so you may want to limit your up-scale to 1080i rather than 1080p or at least experiment with video with fast moving action.

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caned_monkey
Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 6:36 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Oct 2009 Posts: 107 Location: London
I had a look on my TV but I couldn?t find anything to change the scart input setting to RGB or component. I did once have a scart to HDMI converter box which gave a very impressive picture but it had a fan in it which was noisy and it died in the end so I never replaced it.

I was surprised when I was told that the TV should be upscaling to 1080 because I certainly don?t get anything like that with my scart cable. When you compare the picture from the Toppy to the TV's native Freeview tuner the picture difference is obviously much worse.

Just out of interest, how much difference would it make to picture quality between spending 3.99 or 15.99 on a scart to component cable?

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alan_m
Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 9:27 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3523
caned_monkey wrote:
I had a look on my TV but I couldn?t find anything to change the scart input setting to RGB or component.


What TV, make/model?

Quote:

I was surprised when I was told that the TV should be upscaling to 1080 because I certainly don?t get anything like that with my scart cable. When you compare the picture from the Toppy to the TV's native Freeview tuner the picture difference is obviously much worse.


The Toppy is only SD and a SCART cable is analogue and limited to SD.

If your TV was not set to accept RGB it may have been attempting to up-scale a poor quality composite signal also carried by the SCART cable.

Up-scaling doesn't magically make a SD picture HD quality.

Quote:

Just out of interest, how much difference would it make to picture quality between spending 3.99 or 15.99 on a scart to component cable?


Usually no difference. Unfortunately price is no indication of quality and often something costing 2 to 5 works just as well as the gold plated snake oil products sold by high street chains for 80+

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Laser
Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 5:49 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 441
caned_monkey wrote:
I couldn?t find anything to change the scart input setting to RGB

Sometimes the TV can detect the sync patterns in the signals and switch automatically.

Quote:
I was surprised when I was told that the TV should be upscaling to 1080

It has to upscale because it has that many pixels on the screen, it has to fill them up with something. It can't invent extra detail that wasn't in the original signal though.

Quote:
When you compare the picture from the Toppy to the TV's native Freeview tuner the picture difference is obviously much worse.

If the TV has a HD Freeview tuner this will always be so, but otherwise need not be. Getting it to use RGB mode is key, but also sharpness/contrast/colour/etc settings affect it a lot.

I am trying desperately to recall where I got the SCART cable I use with my Toppy. I have a feeling it came with one in the box.

Any half-reputable-looking "fully populated" SCART cable will be fine.

By the way, you are using the correct SCART socket on the Toppy? (Top one I think.) The other one does not do RGB.

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caned_monkey
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 3:40 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Oct 2009 Posts: 107 Location: London
My TV is a Samsung UE32C6620, I got it in 2010 so it's fairly new. It has dozens of picture settings, many of which I don?t know what they actually do so I have them turned off.

I think I may be over emphasising how bad the picture is from the Toppy. In fact, it's not bad at all, it's perfectly acceptable. It's just if you compare it to the picture from the native tuner on the TV or from the old Scart to HDMI converter box I once had, then it's obviously not as good. I watch a lot of snooker and if you compare the TV picture to the Toppy, then you can see that the colours are a lot stronger on the TV (and this is just the SD channels, Freeview HD is really impressive). This is why I was keen to use the converter in my new amp as I was hoping to get the same effect as I did with my old converter box.

I shall give it a go and let you know the results

Laser wrote:

By the way, you are using the correct SCART socket on the Toppy? (Top one I think.) The other one does not do RGB.


Yes, it's the one for TV.

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Bizman
Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 4:04 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 1707
I too have a recent Samsung TV, but I find little difference between the Toppy, SD & HD, but then I have a 5810 and am using an HDMI connection.
My main annoyance is if I have played back several Toppy recordings in succession, it decides I am not using the TV and so wants to switch off. There doesn't appear to be any setting to increase the time-out.

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caned_monkey
Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 9:58 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Oct 2009 Posts: 107 Location: London
OK, so I've got my cable, I went for the cheapy 3.99 job and I'm really happy with the results. It took a bit of faffing about with the controls to get it right but once I'd found the right ones, the picture is greatly improved, being sharper and with much more detail.

I've got it set to 1080p output as 1080i wasn't very clear. The weird thing is, once I'd set it to 1080p the picture seemed really dark and bright, unnatural colours like reds or pinks were obscenely bright. this seemed to calm down the longer the box was on and is now back to normal levels. This caused a lot of problems initially because I spent a lot of time fiddling with with the brightness and contrast to no avail. I was about to give up on it but walked away leaving it on and when I came back it seemed to have improved. Not sure what that was all about.

The sound is obviously much better as well because I'm using the optical out. the only annoying this is that you can no longer control the volume from the Toppy remote.

Anyway, all's well that ends well Smile

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