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trljcl
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:55 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 40
This evening my toppy started a reboot loop, going through c456, load, run, p001 endlessly over about 4 s. Powering off at the wall for 5 min and restarting doesn't help. Holding down 0 on start to try and disable taps doesn't help. Can't access menu to force factory reset as menu screen only available for about 1 second before rebooting and all keys unresponsive. Using TFDN_USB with PC to toppy cable connection doesn't work as connection is only live for about 1 second after toppy reboots. I've tried pre loading TFDN and selecting the emptysettings firmware to download with the cable plugged in before powering on the toppy to make the connection delay as short as possible. I know TFDN should take less than 2 s to flash basic firmware, but it seems the connection isn't even up that long.

Any suggestions on what to do? I had all caps on my psu and a new tuner board replaced by andyfras in January this year (10 months ago), so it shouldn't be a power supply issue. I suspect it is a corrupted epg as I live in a weak signal area and firmware has corrupted once before in the last 6 months, but didn't result in a reset loop. A menu driven reset and refresh of mystuff 6.6 fixed it then.


Thanks
Tony

_________________
TF5800, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; (MyInfo B5.6); PruneEPG 1.0;
Sig generated by TopManager/PcControl on 21/10/15
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:03 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4384
Your symptoms don't sound as though it is a corrupted EPG (holding down the 0 key while booting should prevent any taps running). Having said that, the disk could have been corrupted by poor quality signals.

You could try using Antares to download EmptySettings.tfd (instead of TFDN_USB.

If that doesn't work, switch off the toppy and wait 2 minutes to allow capacitors to discharge. Then open the case and disconnect the disk.
Try running like this to see if it works without the disk. If it does, it implies the disk is corrupted.
If it doesn't, try downloading the firmware again (with the disk still removed).
If that works, reconnect the disk, and boot tapless.
Run my fsCheck tap (hopefully it is on your disk in \ProgramFiles\Utilities - your sig of MyStuff 5.21 is way out of date).
Please post the output of the fsCheck tap in the dedicated fsCheck Reports thread and I'll comment on it tomorrow night.
After posting the report, switch the toppy off until I have commented on the report - just in case a timer fires off a new recording.

If none of the above works, suggest you ship it off to andyfras to sort out.

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; PruneEPG 1.0; fsSave 1.1; QuickJump 1.72; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Bookmark 3.0; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 29/12/18
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alan_m
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:47 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3492
trljcl wrote:
This evening my toppy started a reboot loop,


See also the answer in your duplicated post

http://www.admac.myzen.co.uk/EmptySettings/

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trljcl
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:52 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 40
Thanks Geoff and Alan. I will have a go at reflashing firmware with the disc removed later tonight. I have been running mystuff 6.6 (haven't updated my signature in a while). The last few iterations of mystuff I have used the all in one installation package provided in mystuff setup via my win 7 64 bit laptop USB connection to update firmware, taps and mystuff in one go. I remember spending days a year or so ago trying to get antares to install using the instructions in the links, but always had issues with the USB drivers not working. I gave up with antares but strangely found the mystuff installer communicated and worked, as did TFDN for a simple firmware flash. I'm a bit hesitant to go through trying to install antares again via the link instructions if there's a chance reinstalling USB drivers etc will mess up my ability to use TFDN or mystuff setup, as I know these both usually work.

I'm sure weak signals are the source of my corruption problems as this is a known problem where I live, and I've had rebooting cycles at least twice in the last year that were fixed by disabling taps with 0 and reflashing firmware via the mystuff setup tools. But now 0 won't let me in.

Is there any way to prevent file corruption via weak signals via a setting in mystuff or another tap? I can't do much about my local signal. Had an aerial installer out a few months ago who said reception in our street is borderline even with the best setups and fluctuates between two transmitters. I've always known this and always do manual mux settings when setting up to avoid channel duplications, but it doesn't stop the on average day every fortnight or so when signal quality drops and pictures break up. I suspect when mystuff is trying to gather epg info during a weak signal episode the corruption takes place.

_________________
TF5800, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; (MyInfo B5.6); PruneEPG 1.0;
Sig generated by TopManager/PcControl on 21/10/15
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:06 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4384
Installing Antares shouldn't cause issues with your existing drivers.
Just reinstalling the drivers currently on the pc won't help (although there could be an issue if TFDN_USB is using the wrong driver - but you would need to know which one it needed to change it). Once you get it all working again, use the TopManager| Tools| DLLs to check that your drivers are still valid (you can only do this when TM can connect to the toppy)

Don't do manual mux settings/channel deletions - always use TopManager/PcControl | Channel Management or the ChannelOrganiser tap (all channels should be coming from a single transmitter to avoid epg issues). Using any other method is error prone (and a pain if one has to rescan/repeat the operations).

It won't be MyStuff that causes corruption when it collects the epg - it will just be general corruption (probably caused by buffer overruns). Epg collection is performed by EPG2MEI - this assembles EPG.mei and tells EPG2MEI to read it i.e. MyStuff just uses data rgat EPG2MEI collects.

Make sure you have a copy of my PruneEPG tap installed - this is automatically dome be recent installs with the MyStuff installer but may be missing on yours if you installed it a "long" time ago.

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; PruneEPG 1.0; fsSave 1.1; QuickJump 1.72; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Bookmark 3.0; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 29/12/18
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meadfoot
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:52 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 257
I notice that your Mystuff is way, way outdated - from Feb 2007 The current version is 6.6 and you are also not using the recommended firmware which is 5.13.65T.

I would suggest using the MS installer which will update the firmware as well as giving you some useful utilities such as Channel Organiser tap as Geoff suggested.

I believe v6.6 also has better memory optimisation. After loading you could post the Myinfo log which will help diagnose any problems

_________________
Sutton Coldfield TX
TF5800, IA On, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -SyXl+WfZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; Bookmark 3.0; MyInfo B5.6; TF5000 Display v1.53; UK Subtitle 1.9; Font Manager 1.0d;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 2/7/13


'I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand' Confucius
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trljcl
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:14 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 40
Sorry - my signature is way outdated and I need to update it! I've always used the latest iteration of mystuff and the firmware that comes with it using the installation option to update/install firmware, mystuff, and utility taps at the same time. Before I got stuck in a reboot loop I was using Mystuff 6.6. I also previously used the ChannelOrganiser TAP to delete unwanted channels and duplicates, etc. So the fact that I went into a reboot loop despite all this and my PSU should be OK (replaced Jan) suggests a file corruption problem.

_________________
TF5800, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; (MyInfo B5.6); PruneEPG 1.0;
Sig generated by TopManager/PcControl on 21/10/15
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albertd
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Posts: 570
Once you have the box running again, it would be a very good idea to check your signal levels. You can do that using Geoff's "Top Manager". If any Mux is showing a quality figure below 99% you need to try and improve the signal coming down from your aerial.

Maybe time to get the aerial replaced. Do not be tempted to put a "booster" behind the set - if you need a amplifier, it must be one which can be put up near to the aerial (a masthead amplifier).

Any Quality figure below 99% and you risk the same thing happening again.

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Now toppyless due to problems with my beloved TF5800 (No, not the capacitors!). 2/4/2018
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trljcl
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:53 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 40
Dear Albert D, I have had my aerial replaced and the best signal is 99 quality on some mixes, but around 85 on others. This is with a professionally installed masthead amplifier.The aerial replacement ( by a professional installer) improved quality slightly, but I still get some drop outs and freezes, maybe once every few days. Not a bother for viewing, but the installer said my reception was borderline so this obviously has an effect on the Toppy. It's sadly a consequence of where we live and nothing can be done. What I really want is a way to prevent weak signal based file corruptions on the toppy in this context, since I can't improve the signal further. at the moment I'm having to do factory resets every few months, not really convenient.

_________________
TF5800, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; (MyInfo B5.6); PruneEPG 1.0;
Sig generated by TopManager/PcControl on 21/10/15
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trljcl
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:35 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 40
OK, to update all:
1) Tried Antares and TopManager to try and get access to my toppy via a USB connection. When I switch the toppy on from standby, C456 comes up for about 2 s, then Load for 2 s, then run for about 1 s, then P001, then after about a 3 s delay the toppy reboots an repeats the same cycle over and over. The USB connection is made when C456 first flashes up (indicated by a chime on PC), then breaks about half way through Load (about 2-3s later, indicated by a second chime on the PC).

2) Opening up the toppy (after switching off), disconnecting the HDD and then powering on leads to C456-Load-run-P001 as above, and no reboots. Excellent! However, the USB connection still only connects momentarily as before in C456 and disconnects in Load. Manually restarting the toppy (either using standby or the wall switch) repeats this cycle. If Anatares is open during this, there is a brief ( < 2 s) "flash" in the header of the screen when the connection is made, but nothing else. TopManager does the following if I hit connect on TopManager and power on the toppy simultaneously:

Connecting to Toppy...
No Toppy connections detected - will try each dll in turn
Attempting to open USB connection using XP.dll ...
Attempting to open USB connection using Vista.dll ...
Attempting to open USB connection using tfWinUSB.dll ...
USB connection to Toppy established
Checking visibility of directories on the Toppy
Error: DirectoryExists exception failure (#:\ProgramFiles\)
Error: DirectoryExists exception failure (#:\DataFiles\)
Error: Unable to detect Toppy top level directories
Please check that Toppy is switched On and connected to your server
Closed Toppy Connection
<<< Connection failed
TopManager has not detected any programs that would prevent use e.g. Altair
<<< Check Toppy is switched on and cable is connected

Doing the TopManager connect with the USB disconnected (or connected too late) only gives :

Connecting to Toppy...
No Toppy connections detected - will try each dll in turn
Attempting to open USB connection using XP.dll ...
Attempting to open USB connection using Vista.dll ...
Attempting to open USB connection using tfWinUSB.dll ...
Failed to establish connection to Toppy using any of the USB drivers
<<< Connection failed
TopManager has not detected any programs that would prevent use e.g. Altair
<<< Check Toppy is switched on and cable is connected


This suggests to me a successful USB connection is being made but not maintained. Although the toppy is not continually rebooting itself with the HDD disconnected, the fact that it can't maintain a USB connection suggests a firmware file corruption?

3) With the HDD disconnected, because the toppy can boot (just no access via USB), I tried a menu-installation-factory setting then service search. This all worked fine and I got, for mux 47, 96% level and 99% quality (BBC1 Yorkshire Emley Moor). All of course with vanilla toppy menus and no HDD connected. Switching off at wall after this, wait 5 min, then on with USB = still USB connection drop out on Load. Switching off, plugging HDD back in - back to resetting loop. With the HDD disconnected and the toppy on and happily showing BBC1, if I then plug in the USB cable no connection is recognised, which is I think unexpected.

So I'm now stumped. I know my USB connection works as I have used less than 2 months ago on the same PC to upgrade to MyStuff 6.6. Is there another way to clear any possible corrupt firmware using the remote menu system, other than factory reset given my USB is refusing to work?

thanks
Tony

_________________
TF5800, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; (MyInfo B5.6); PruneEPG 1.0;
Sig generated by TopManager/PcControl on 21/10/15
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alan_m
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:47 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3492
deleted


Last edited by alan_m on Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Ex Toppy 5800 user - now migrated to Extrend ET10000 Enigma 2 box with 2 terrestrial and 2 satellite tuners
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alan_m
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:11 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3492
trljcl wrote:
OK, to update all:
1) Tried Antares and TopManager to try and get access to my toppy via a USB connection. When I switch the toppy on from standby, C456 comes up for about 2 s, then Load for 2 s, then run for about 1 s, then P001, then after about a 3 s delay the toppy reboots an repeats the same cycle over and over. The USB connection is made when C456 first flashes up (indicated by a chime on PC), then breaks about half way through Load (about 2-3s later, indicated by a second chime on the PC).


There are two stages to a usb connection.

One is in the very early stages of a boot process, and possibly before C456 appears, and the one you can use to load Emptysettings OR a copy of the firmware if a firmware corruption is suspected .

[edit] a copy of the recommended firmware can be found at
http://www.toppy.org.uk/downloads/firmware.php
and if this works you may want to use the firmware installer (Mystuff installer page) afterwards to make sure the optional patches are installed.
[/edit]

To use this first stage connection you first need to turn the box off at the mains then preload TFDN_USB OR the latest version of Antares with the firmware and then turn the box on at the mains. The Antares instructions were in the link in my previous post. Note that early versions of Antares didn't have the TFDN_USB type functionality so you need the latest version.


The second stage of connecting to the USB is later in the boot process and you will get a chime if windows has unhelpfully installed the incorrect USB drivers. The chime may not indicate the correct drivers.

Note also that the Toppy can only connect to one program at a time so if the PC is hanging on to a connection other programs may not see the Toppy. Try rebooting your PC before trying a second connection via another program on your PC.

You could check which USB drivers windows has associated with the Toppy by running USBdeview

http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=267360#267360

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trljcl
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:42 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 40
Quote:
To use this first stage connection you first need to turn the box off at the mains then preload TFDN_USB OR the latest version of Antares with the firmware and then turn the box on at the mains. The Antares instructions were in the link in my previous post. Note that early versions of Antares didn't have the TFDN_USB type functionality so you need the latest version.


Tried all this, and still no connection. I'm using Antares 1.1. Also tried scrubbing USB drivers first using usbdeview-x64, restarting PC, plugging in USB cable between PC and Toppy, starting Anatares, selecting emptysettings.tfd to go PVR. Antares is showing ERROR CONNECTING TO THE PVR RETRYING... Then power on toppy from wall. No change in message, goes into reset loop with chiming, \datafiles header in Antares flashing when connection is momentarily made then dropped. TFDN_USB no go either.

_________________
TF5800, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; (MyInfo B5.6); PruneEPG 1.0;
Sig generated by TopManager/PcControl on 21/10/15
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:56 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4384
TopManager, by design, won't connect when there is no disk in the toppy (well it will connect and then immediately disconnect when it can't find the reserved directories - which is what you have).

You can't just say that the toppy can't maintain a USB connection when no disk is present - there is no point having a connection when a disk is not present!.

A chime just means that windows has detected the device and is normal i.e. it doesn't indicate a problem. If you get a second chime after a couple of seconds then that could indicate that the USB connection has been dropped.

As alan_m says, you need to using the latest version of Antares You should download the latest Antares to be able to download EmptySettings.tfd.
However, EmptySettings is normally used only so that one can access the main menus. As you have now already done that (step 3), you don't strictly still need to load EmptySettings.tfd
Note: ISTR that someone (andyfras?) has previously said that EmptySettings sometimes clears other conditions that aren't fixed by a "Factory Reset" i.e. you need to try loading it with Antares.

Quote:
With the HDD disconnected and the toppy on and happily showing BBC1, if I then plug in the USB cable no connection is recognised, which is I think unexpected.
I think this is what I would expect to happen - the USB is probably only enabled for a couple of seconds to see if a download is available.

If you really can't get Antares to work, try the following:-
1) Use explorer to locate the folder containing TFDN_USB.exe
2) Use a different explorer window to locate the folder containing TopManager.exe.
3) Copy the tfWinUSB.dll (in the TM window) into the TFDN_USB window
4) in the TFDN_USB window
4a) rename tfDLL.dll to tfDLL_old.dll (case should not be significant)
4b) rename tfWinUSB.dll to tfDLL.dll

The above should ensure that TFDN_USB is using the dll successfully detected by TopManager. and hopefully should allow you to use it to download the firmware.


While the disk is disconnected, you could try connecting it to your pc (but it might need an adapter) and then see if it is accessible using TOPF_HDRW (you can't access it from windows directly). If this works you can use one of the options to check the file system is ok.
Note: if it complains about (or wants to make major changes to) the file system then you are probably better off sending the disk to me to recover the data (assuming you don't want to just reformat it and start again).
But I wouldn't have expected a corrupted disk to cause reboots (assuming you are booting tapless)

If TOPF_HDRW can't process the disk then it probably needs replacing - assuming that the program does at least see the disk.

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; PruneEPG 1.0; fsSave 1.1; QuickJump 1.72; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Bookmark 3.0; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 29/12/18
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:00 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4384
Don't have the disk in while trying to load EmptySettings.tfd.

After EmptySetting has been successfully loaded
1) tune the toppy to a single mux
2) switch off and reboot tapless (hold '0' while booting)
3) See if it is still rebooting

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; PruneEPG 1.0; fsSave 1.1; QuickJump 1.72; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Bookmark 3.0; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 29/12/18
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