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<  Firmwares, enhancements and upgrades  ~  WD2500AVJS and Pata to Sata Adapter

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Michael:)
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:36 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 53
Very Happy Very Happy Hi Folks Very Happy Very Happy
Haven't been here for some time. I have two 5800's and are now getting to the point that things are getting flakey. My newest 5800 has started having disk problems due to heat. I have a Notebook Cooler running underneath at the moment. The older unit I put a small PATA drive in some time ago. Works fine. Now the newer unit is playing up it is time to put in a new disk. I purchased a Western Digital 250GB WD2500AVJS for small money. I also purchased an adapter http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004IYFR3O/ref=pe_217191_31005151_M3C_dp_1. I was unsure if it would work but seemed right. I should have looked on the forum first. I have got the disk working on the Toppy cable but not on a spare longer cable. However, the TAPs will not work and the recordings are pixelated. So the read/write is not working 100%. The mods are being undertaken on the older toppy as it is easier to get access and is not our primary device. If this works will mod them both. I also tried a jumper on pins 5 & 6 on the drive - did not work at all. Sad Power supplies seem fine at the moment, but considering capacitor upgrade at the same time.
Anyone with advice on where to go from here to a 100% solution? Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Also, anyone got the utilities for windows8 (does not currently work - drivers seem to be a problem) - I am using an old XP laptop for USB communication at the moment.

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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:49 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4492
Use the Antares kit for the W8 driver

You may have flakey capacitors; would advise getting them replaced before fitting new drive.

To transfer files via USB, suggest you use Antares.
You can also perform toppy management tasks using TopManager (but only works in \ProgramFiles...)
Altair will work but you will need to use the TopManager Tools|Dlls| Show| Fix option first; probably easiest to use Antares instead.

Geoff

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alan_m
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:53 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3523
Michael:) wrote:
Very Happy Very Happy Hi Folks Very Happy Very Happy
Haven't been here for some time. I have two 5800's and are now getting to the point that things are getting flakey. My newest 5800 has started having disk problems due to heat.


A common problem is the power supply capacitors which often manifest themselves as a disk failing. Replacing capacitors often restores the disk to a working order.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Topfield_5800/PSU_Repair
capacitor replacement is a chaep DIY fix or a couple of forum members offer a repair service (or a kit of quality parts for DIY)

http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=252369#252369


Quote:

Also, anyone got the utilities for windows8 (does not currently work - drivers seem to be a problem) - I am using an old XP laptop for USB communication at the moment.



Antares works with both 32 and 64 bit windows
http://haselgrove.id.au/antares/

Win 8 driver installation
http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=253350#253350
(read all of the first page as there is more than 1 solution)


Also Topmanager that runs on your PC
http://www.geeceebee.co.uk/

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juwlz
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:20 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10804 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
Michael:) wrote:
Now the newer unit is playing up it is time to put in a new disk. I purchased a Western Digital 250GB WD2500AVJS for small money. I also purchased an adapter http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004IYFR3O/ref=pe_217191_31005151_M3C_dp_1. I was unsure if it would work but seemed right. I should have looked on the forum first. I have got the disk working on the Toppy cable but not on a spare longer cable. However, the TAPs will not work and the recordings are pixelated. So the read/write is not working 100%. The mods are being undertaken on the older toppy as it is easier to get access and is not our primary device. If this works will mod them both. I also tried a jumper on pins 5 & 6 on the drive - did not work at all. Sad
Are the drive and adapter on the recommended drive and recommended adapter lists? If not, you may be flogging a dead horse (or, more accurately, flogging to death the Toppy that you've put them in).

Quote:
Power supplies seem fine at the moment, but considering capacitor upgrade at the same time.
What do you base this assessment on? It's never worth replacing a hard drive in a Toppy until you've actually confirmed that the power supply is definitely OK. In fact, even PSUs that measure within spec with a multi-meter still benefit from a full set of new capacitors. (AndyFras can supply a kit very cost-effectively, if you're up for a DIY repair).

A failing power supply is both the primary cause of true disk failures, and something that makes a Toppy LOOK as though it has a hard drive problem, even when the hard drive is actually OK. See Toppy Repairs (as well as the other links you've been given) for more details.

Julie

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Michael:)
Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:02 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 53
Many thanks for the prompt responses.

Fortunately have two machines both working so can play for a while.

Caps will be replaced sometime very soon. Geting a quote off of Andyfras as I type. Do not think that is the cause of the current failure of the disk adapter combination.

As for the disk and adapter and cable; may take a few iterations to get it correct. Disk should be ok as it a video compliant variant. Might regret those words later. However, the adapter may not be a good marriage between the toppy and the disk.

Thanks for the links, now have to consider which bit to replace next. Trying not to spend the Turbosat price. Need to decide whether to bite the bullet or not. May try a cheaper option off the list first.

The Toppy's are still great machines and old friends just may need some corrective and replacement surgery. Do not need or want to bury them just yet.

Keep the info/considerations coming it is much appreciated and is giving me good material to consider.

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juwlz
Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:24 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10804 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
Michael:) wrote:
Thanks for the links, now have to consider which bit to replace next. Trying not to spend the Turbosat price. Need to decide whether to bite the bullet or not. May try a cheaper option off the list first.
Speak to AndyFras about those too Wink. He's usually got some suitable ones around that he can sell, and probably cheaper than Turbosat's.


Last edited by juwlz on Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total

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jof
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:38 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 03 Mar 2009 Posts: 26
Michael:) wrote:
I have got the disk working on the Toppy cable but not on a spare longer cable. However, the TAPs will not work and the recordings are pixelated.

I had a similar problem with pixelation when I installed the "typical" IDE-SATA adaptor like the one you link to. I could not use the original Toppy IDE cable because it was too short, so I used the shortest spare cable I could find. Trouble is, it didn't have any ferrites to protect it.
There's a good reason for that ferrite on the Toppy's cable. Without it, I got pixelation. YMMV

I then bit the bullet and bought the Turbosat version because this does away with the IDE cable since the adapter is at the IDE end, not the SATA end, so the cable is SATA and does not suffer from the same interference.

Problem solved. Don't go cheap - it's a false economy.

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alan_m
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:50 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3523
jof wrote:
There's a good reason for that ferrite on the Toppy's cable. Without it, I got pixelation. YMMV


The other recommendation is to replace the 40 way cable with 80 way, cut off the bit you don't need and reverse the connection which requires a blanking hole on the cable connector to be drilled out. The hole that is blanked off often still has the hole in the connector with just a thin piece of plastic covering it. A nail or compass point can be pushed through the thin plastic covering.

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andyfras
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:01 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3468
I have supplied a Lycom ST-106-2 adapter to Michael:) complete with suitable 80-way IDE cable as described above.

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Michael:)
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:25 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 53
More parts on the way.

Next iteration before end of week.

Thanks for everyones help - will report back when able to test the new parts.

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alan_m
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:05 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3523
Michael:) wrote:
Disk should be ok as it a video compliant variant. Might regret those words later.


The disk power specification suggests around 15 Watts peak power which I think is more than the original Samsung 160G disks fitted fitted to the Toppy. If the Toppy's power supply is marginally going out of specification this disk could just push it over the edge. If you have a multimeter I would recommend double checking the power supply voltages, both with your old disk and your replacement disk.

http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2506/~/specifications-for-the-250-gb-wd-av-serial-ata-hard-drive-(wd2500avjs)

Many people replacing hard drives go for the "green" drives which take a third to half the power of the original Toppy drives, even at 1 to 2T byte capacity. A disk for the Toppy doesn't have to be high performance hence speed can be traded for lower power.

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Michael:)
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:53 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 53
Haven't checked for PSU sag yet. Will put that on my list of jobs to do. If my scope still works I will put it on the different power lines to see what it shows.

Waiting for the new caps and will do all the jobs at the same time.

Thanks for the info - it is something important to consider. Is there a spec for the Toppy psu?

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Michael:)
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:32 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 53
Prompt delivery of Capacitors and IDE/Sata board have just arrived from Andyfras- Thanks Andy

Will start the rebuild process later today.

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andyfras
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:01 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3468
Michael:) wrote:
Is there a spec for the Toppy psu?

Typical voltages here:

http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19103&start=0

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Michael:)
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:54 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 53
Not changed caps yet.

Have new disk working with both adapters on new cable.

Will check voltages 2morrow. Used the scope 2night. 12v and 5v supplies seem to be handling the new disk even better than the old IDE. Not sure why the other two cables failed to work the disk.

More experimenting after the docs at noon 2morrow.

Intermittent USB communication using my XP laptop but by little transfers managed to transfer a working set of taps.

My windows8 notebook has no Toppy USB communication whatso ever.

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