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fofp
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:42 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 84
Toppy 5810 using MyStuff 6.4, Skip 1.34a, Font Manager 1.0, Tap Commander 1.34, Extend 1.7, ScCache (UK) 0.4, EITSub(game) 0.6, MHEG ON/OFF A3

Toppy has had the PSU capacitors replaced and has a 50mm fan mod at the rear of the PSU.

Everything was fine and then I did a retune to add 4Seven and Channel 5+1.

On rebooting I got a message I hadn't seen before about doing a data reset. It wouldn't let me enter either Yes or No. Rebooted again and managed to get a Yes in. The Folders check went through OK and things looked fine. The Toppy hung however as soon as a recording started.

I'd get it working and then it'd hang again, requiring a plug-pull. Then it started to hang during the Folders check or the MyStuff load (at "L").

I managed to get it into native mode by repeated plug-pulls and holding down zero. It worked for a while like that and then hung again.

I had a new spare Toppy without a hard-drive (bought a while back from the manufacturer). I transplanted the hard drive to the new unit to see what that would tell me. Unfortunately I got pretty much the same behaviour with hangs at Folder checks or Mystuff loads and occasionally getting it workng only to see it hang when I'm jumping through the ads or when it records or whatever.

It'd seem an odd coincidence if this had nothing to do with the retune. That it fails in both machines seems to indicate it's either a hardware issue with the hard drive itself, or some kind of software issue.

I'm puzzled what to try now. Any suggestions most welcome....
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andyfras
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:59 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3468
As the 5810 is very short of RAM, it is recommended that it is booted TAPless when retuning, so that 'dross' and duplicate channels can be removed, before they use up all the RAM and cause a crash.

The crash has probably corrupted the hard disk, so it will need to be fixed using TopfHDRW/Doctor.

_________________
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.6 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver : Prune EPG
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 320GB 2.5", Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScUUuWfZ
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juwlz
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:16 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10804 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
In general with a 5810 running MyStuff, always do everything you can to never have MyStuff running with more than about 40 channels on your Toppy.

So:
Exit MyStuff (for safety's sake, you could move it out of Auto Start at this point)
Use FSG or Channel Organiser to rescan
Then delete all the dross channels using Channel Organiser.
Move MyStuff back to Auto Start if you moved it out.

ONLY THEN should you allow the Toppy to boot normally, and start MyStuff.

Here's why. And here's an example of low memory corrupting the hard drive when retuning.

Julie

_________________
5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+BmC0CfCtFsIMPePsR3UUuUxZ
5810, TS On, F/W: F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +BmCfCtFsR3Z
MyStuff info; Help!; Reference
Harmony 885 remote. Sig date 8 April 2012
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fofp
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:03 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 84
Got a recording in native mode last night. At 21.00 while I was watching one recording, the machine hung as New Tricks started recording. I couldn't get it to boot.

I took out the disk and connected it by IDE/USB cable to a laptop and loaded Toppy-HDRW (not something I've tried before). The Filecheck reported MyyStuff sector corruption and "synced" 7 FAT and then it hung and lost connection to the drive.

I then tried to get some recordings off. It took ages to load and scan, and then I managed to get 8 recordings copied before it hung again and lost the connection. I thought the disk was repeatedly spinning up and down, with some clicking going on. Could be that there's a problem with the drive, which will be 5 or 6 years old by now and has been used for hours each day.

Today I loaded HDRW onto my work machine and the Doctor ran and said things were OK and then asked me to write. Right now I'm getting the series episodes off the disk and so far it's copied 20 or so OK.

What do you guys figure? Is it still corruption due to tuning with MyStuff running? Is it just the hard drive? I looked at the link with the EEPROM being corrupted - would that explain my Toppy often not booting up even into native mode? How hard is that to fix?

Next steps - Maybe the Doctor did some good and I should try putting the disk back into the Toppy? Should I completely reload MyStuff and will that fix any corrupted EPG files?

To be honest I'm starting to wonder about getting a 1.5Tb SATA disk and putting that in, but now I'm worried that as I fill it up, more files will blow the RAM again through MyStuff - how do I discover how much memory is used?

Again, thanks to respondents - you guys really are amazing!

Mike
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andyfras
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:15 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3468
One way to prove whether it's the hard drive causing the problem is to disconnect it and run the Toppy as just a Freeview receiver. If it boots and behaves normally, the drive is the problem.

Hopefully your latest TopfHDRW fix will have done the trick though.
fofp wrote:
Should I completely reload MyStuff and will that fix any corrupted EPG files?

Reloading MyStuff will not fix corrupted EPG files. If the disk is still connected to a PC running TopfHDRW, you can rename the EPG files or delete them before you return the disk to your Toppy, and MyStuff will recreate them (it may take 30 minutes).

If the disk is back in the Toppy, run Top Manager on the connected PC and use it to rename the files for you.

_________________
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.6 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver : Prune EPG
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 320GB 2.5", Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScUUuWfZ
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:31 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4492
@fofp

Your prior posts imply that you have only changed some of the capacitors. If this is the case, I suggest you get a full kit from andyfras and replace the lot (or at least measure all the voltages and post them so that someone will tell you if they are ok)

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; PruneEPG 1.0; fsSave 1.1; QuickJump 1.72; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Bookmark 3.0; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 29/12/18
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fofp
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:05 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 84
Trying hard to remember, I think I replaced 6 capacitors on the PSU board which seemed to be the advice in these parts at the time. If I need to do more then yes, I'd be interested in getting the parts.

So measuring the voltages. I need to measure across the molex connector to the hard drive? I'm a bit leery of poking onto the PSU board while it's live.
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juwlz
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:31 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10804 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
If it's a 5800, that's nearly half of them done then. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Topfield_5800/PSU_Repair#_

_________________
5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+BmC0CfCtFsIMPePsR3UUuUxZ
5810, TS On, F/W: F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +BmCfCtFsR3Z
MyStuff info; Help!; Reference
Harmony 885 remote. Sig date 8 April 2012
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andyfras
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:35 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3468
My current 5810 kit contains 9 capacitors. If the main ones were replaced with decent capacitors, the voltages will measure OK; the others do not show up as voltage errors when they fail.

I don't think that the PSU is the cause of the problem in this case. I think it was a crash caused by running out of RAM while retuning.

_________________
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.6 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver : Prune EPG
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 320GB 2.5", Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScUUuWfZ
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fofp
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:07 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 84
I did some more investigation last night, as well as backing up the disk using HDRW.

It looks like when I did the capacitors, I simply replaced two of the larger ones, which I recall had domed tops. Should I replace the rest with an andyfras kit or leave well alone if I can get things working without this?

Given that HDRW has reported a MyStuff corruption problem, I think I'd like to "restart" the disk. Presumably I could use HDRW to remove anything to do with TAPs while leaving the recordings OK, and then reload the TAPs after a Factory Reset and retune? So the question is which files and directories I should remove and what I must leave there to avoid messing things up further? There do seem to be an awful lot of TAP-related files in various directories.

Which of the above TAPs do I need just to keep Mystuff and Skip running and which can I safely move out once I have things back to normal. I'll try to retune using Channel Organiser, though I seem to recall having trouble the last time I tried that, and then I'll move that out of Autostart and load Mystuff etc. I guess I could move Tap Commander out of autostart and just use it when I need it, but I suspect the others (apart from Skip, which I use a great deal) were loaded by Mustuff installer.

Finally I'm getting to thinking that maybe while I'm messing with it anyway, that it's time to upgrade the hard drive. I was figuring on the WD Green WD20EARS 2TB disk from Insight with the Avtech SATA to IDE PATA Hard Drive Converter HDDCONV and 380mm ATA100/133 IDE 80-way hard disk drive HDD ROUND/SHIELDED cable 2 x IDC40F.

Does anyone forsee any problems with this? The threads about the MyStuff RAM crash indicate that number of recordings is implicated and no doubt I'll sooner or later fill a 2TB disk with about 700 movies and some series. If that'd blow the RAM then I might as well go for a lower capacity disk?

Once more, thanks for your help. I wouldn't even have gotten this far without it.

Mike
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andyfras
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:13 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3468
fofp wrote:
It looks like when I did the capacitors, I simply replaced two of the larger ones, which I recall had domed tops. Should I replace the rest with an andyfras kit or leave well alone if I can get things working without this?

If 2 had failed, there's a good chance that others will soon follow. For future reliability, I suggest replacing them with one of my kits (but I would say that, wouldn't I? Wink )

_________________
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.6 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver : Prune EPG
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 320GB 2.5", Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScUUuWfZ
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fofp
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:24 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 84
Thanks Andy: could you please contact me at ******** to let me know how to obtain one of your kits?
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:12 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4492
In your position, I would move the disk to the pc and use TopfHDRW to copy all the files (taps and recordings) to the pc disk.

I would then put the disk back in the toppy.
[edit]Use the TopManager "Tools| Manage MyStuff Backup Files" to purge the backups to 5 versions (say)[/edit].
Before formatting, use the TM "Snapshot| Take" option to save the \ProgramFiles folder (I know I copied them off in the first sentence but it makes it easier to manipulate them).

Having got everything off the disk, reformat the disk in the toppy.
If necessary, manually tune one channel so that you can get past the system menu.

Put disk back in pc and use TopfHDRW to restore the recordings
(TopfHDRW has problems copying small files so don't use for the \ProgramFiles)

Put disk back in toppy and use TM to install the PcControl tap (Tools| Install Files| PcControl). Reboot toppy and use PcControl| Show PcC Menus and PcControl| Channel Management. Select "Identify My transmitter" in combo box and Perform Scan. Right click in display and select "all pay, porn,..." and Delete them( followed by Finalize).

The toppy now has a valid filesystem and the channels are also valid.

Check it looks ok as a basic toppy.

Use the "SnapShot| Compare " option to restore the MyStuff data files
(everything in \ProgramFiles\Settings\MyStuff [deleted]- you may need to clean up old MyStuff backup files afterwards[/deleted]). This step puts the MyStuff config files back on the toppy.

Then use the MyStuff installer to load MS and the utility taps (putting recordings and config files in place first means that MS will not adjust its files when it next runs).

Reboot toppy and check all ok.

Leave the recordings on the pc disk until you have decided whether or not you are going to upgrade the disk (minimises what you need to copy when you upgrade)

Geoff

Note: You can perform similar operations without TopManager (but I did say "In your position")

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; PruneEPG 1.0; fsSave 1.1; QuickJump 1.72; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Bookmark 3.0; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 29/12/18
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juwlz
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:31 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10804 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
Or to generalise (with or without TopManager, but bearing in mind that people have had problems relying on TopfHDRW for the TAPs and config files in /ProgramFiles), see Replacing your Hard Drive for how to deal with the files on a hard drive that you want to recover. You may (or may not) end up putting the same drive back in the Toppy, but the process is the same.

Julie

_________________
5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+BmC0CfCtFsIMPePsR3UUuUxZ
5810, TS On, F/W: F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +BmCfCtFsR3Z
MyStuff info; Help!; Reference
Harmony 885 remote. Sig date 8 April 2012
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fofp
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:24 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 84
More progress. I've ordered a capacitor + battery kit from Andy. Last night I loaded TopManager and did the snapshot after limiting MyStuff backup files. It complained about missing mei files for a couple of channels - I'm not sure what that means except that it's somehow related to the EPG. Perhaps it's just related to the channels screwup, which I've discovered had multiple channels loaded because I can see three transmitters.

The HDRW copy failed partway overnight but hopefully will finish by the time I get home today.

I was thinking about simply loading MyStuff from new after I get the channels sorted, just to ensure i get a clean start. I assume I'd have to rebuild my timers, but I can do that based on my Digiguide searches. I assume that I'll also need to rebuild the mcl (?) file which list my favourite channels for the EPG guide. I'd hope that MyStuff will just sort the rest out for itself and then I'll have a new and clean setup?

Is there anything more than that involved such that I shouldn't try this?

Thanks

Mike

P.S: Still considering the 2Tb SATA drive upgrade too, and leaning in favour...
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