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macmac
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:41 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 24 Apr 2012 Posts: 117
I'm considering buying a used 'Topfield T5810t PVR' from TurboSat.

But it comes without HDD, so
Is it a special HDD, or can I fit a regular HDD, like I might fit in my PC ?

Can I go bigger than 500GB (say 1TB) ?

Or should I also buy the HDD from TurboSat, (they do seem overpriced at 50 for a 500GB)

And is it simply a case of fitting a new drive, or will it need to be Formatted first ?

Also, I already use one of these that I purchased new a while ago:
So to prevent interference between the 2 PVR's, is it possible to change the Frequency, in the Remote-Control and PVR ?

Thanks
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chris_s
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:52 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 23 May 2008 Posts: 403
Many on this site will tell you to get a second hand 5800 (e.g. one that andyfras is selling), but if you want to go the 5810 route then you could do exactly what I have done and fit a larger, greener SATA drive via a PATA-SATA interface. I chose to fit a 1.5TB WD Drive and used the Turbosat interface, but there are many other options - there is a whole thread about which work and which don't somewhere (others will no doubt supply a link).

I run 2 5810s in the same room by applying a special patch to make one of them respond to 5800 control codes; there are a few limitations in doing this, but I don't find them onerous.

Lastly, I have a universal remote which is set up to control one toppy as a 5810 and the other as a 5800.

If you are interested, I will dig out the details of the patch.

Chris.

_________________
TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009
TAPs: QuickJump 1.72; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; QuickBlank 0.2; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MyInfo B5.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.5; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; MHEG On/Off A3; (Start Channel LCN);
Sig generated by MyInfo on 14/3/12
,
TV=Panasonic TX-32DT2 IDTV (32" CRT via CVBS-SCART), Tx: Sutton Coldfield. "My other PVR is a TiVo".
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macmac
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:04 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 24 Apr 2012 Posts: 117
chris_s wrote:
Many on this site will tell you to get a second hand 5800 (e.g. one that andyfras is selling), but if you want to go the 5810 route then you could do exactly what I have done and fit a larger, greener SATA drive via a PATA-SATA interface. I chose to fit a 1.5TB WD Drive and used the Turbosat interface, but there are many other options - there is a whole thread about which work and which don't somewhere (others will no doubt supply a link).

I run 2 5810s in the same room by applying a special patch to make one of them respond to 5800 control codes; there are a few limitations in doing this, but I don't find them onerous.

Lastly, I have a universal remote which is set up to control one toppy as a 5810 and the other as a 5800.

If you are interested, I will dig out the details of the patch.

Chris.


Yes Please Chris.
All the info you can supply would be greatly appreciated.
Why do some prefere the 5800 ?

Thanks
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alan_m
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:22 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3505
macmac wrote:

Why do some prefere the 5800 ?


You can use older more stable software/firmware on a 5800. You can only use the buggy Freeview+ software on a 5810 which Topfield walked away from 2/3 years ago without fixing the bugs. To get back the Freeview+ functionality 5800 users install TAPs such as Mystuff.
Bug list
http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=160549#160549

The only firmware that can be run on a 5810 eats around quarter of the limited amount of RAM just by switching it on - much more than the 5800. Have too many channels or collect too much EPG and you may find that all free/available RAM disappears and you start getting unexpected and unpredictable behaviour.

Topfield halved the number of ventilation slots on the 5810. Toppy's run very hot and heat is one of the contributing factors that kill capacitors on the PSU and the hard disks. Without modification the 5810 native firmware only has a pretend standby mode thus putting it into standby doesn't reduce power or heat generation.

One difference that may suit some people is that the 5810 has video upscaling and a HDMI video interface whereas the 5800 doesn't. However, on any mid to high range TV the imaging engine in the TV probably makes a better job of upscaling SD format video.


Last edited by alan_m on Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:00 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4415
andyfras has an auction for a 5800 now. Suggest you contact him to find out how much extra it would cost to get the disk size you desire (assuming you win the auction).

If you buy from andy then the hardware should be fine (unlike buying from eBay which could be hot or miss). He will also stick MyStuff etc on it if you ask him nicely.

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; PruneEPG 1.0; fsSave 1.1; QuickJump 1.72; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Bookmark 3.0; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
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ccs
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:22 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 2586
alan_m wrote:
macmac wrote:

Why do some prefere the 5800 ?
You can use older more stable software/firmware on a 5800. You can only use the buggy Freeview+ software on a 5810 which Topfield walked away from 2/3 years ago without fixing the bugs.
Fortunately, a forum member, R2-D2, fixed these bugs, and it now works very reliably as a freeview+ pvr.

_________________
TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -FmXl+CtEzIScVdZ
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.6;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 20/10/14
ccsx
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roga
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:23 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 15 Jul 2006 Posts: 167
alan_m wrote:

Without modification the 5810 native firmware only has a pretend standby mode thus putting it into standby doesn't reduce power or heat generation.


Hi alan

I have a 5810 with mystuff installed firmware, does mine go into a proper standby, or do I need another patch?

_________________
TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +UUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; (MyInfo B5.6); SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; PruneEPG 1.0; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyStuff 6.6;
Sig generated by TopManager/PcControl on 21/08/15
?
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alan_m
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:41 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3505
roga wrote:

I have a 5810 with mystuff installed firmware, does mine go into a proper standby, or do I need another patch?


Run Myinfo to see what patches have been installed. If you have the Sf patch than no further action is required.
http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=165541#165541

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slimgym
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:28 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 19 Aug 2009 Posts: 118 Location: Essendon, Herts.
macmac wrote:
But it comes without HDD, so
Is it a special HDD, or can I fit a regular HDD, like I might fit in my PC ?
As IDE drives are becoming scarce, and ideally you want a low current drain 5400rpm drive, it maybe worth using a SATA drive instead.

I fitted a DealExtreme SATA<>IDE adaptor and have successfully used 320GB 2.5" Western Digital drives - as here. There's no need to format it, you just put it in and it self formats. I tried a 1.5TB SATA green drive but with mystuff it gets slower to load the archive list the fuller the directory gets so it was pointless as I had to set the recycler to empty when it was 80% full. I put the 320GB back in again!

I have had a 5800, and bought two 5810s - one for my parents. The 5810 is much more a pleasure to look at with the useful display and with the display TAP which shows you what's going on at the time rather than the 5800 trying to do it all on its 1970's display. The memory could be an issue but there is still 8MB free on it. I don't notice much difference between them in daily use, the speed seems about the same.

I don't think either have been free from problems but then the toppy has always needed to be tinkered with, hasn't it Wink

_________________
TF5810, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Fm+Sc
TAPs: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; Extend v1.7; MHEG On/Off A3; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; MyStuff 6.4; SecCache (UK) v0.4; (FastScanGUI v0.6b)
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alan_m
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:44 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3505
ccs wrote:
Fortunately, a forum member, R2-D2, fixed these bugs, and it now works very reliably as a freeview+ pvr.


Not all the bugs and the satisfaction of customers depends on how its used.

After spending a couple of hundred quid+ on a 5810 and finding it very unreliable, despite patches and a few TAPs. a friend of mine went out and spent another couple of hundred quid+ on a Humax because "it works without having to F*** around with it".

These days it may be worth looking at the alternatives, especially if you want HD.

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slimgym
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:58 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 19 Aug 2009 Posts: 118 Location: Essendon, Herts.
alan_m wrote:
spent another couple of hundred quid+ on a Humax because "it works without having to F*** around with it".
It is frustrating to have to fiddle and mess around when the hard drive formats, you lose all your channels, lose your timers, get a corrupt firmware, corrupt settings or any of the other things I've had to deal with. Even a retune becomes a chore, having to delete unwanted channels to save memory! (I realise Channel Organiser and FastScanGUI largely automate this by try explaining it to your parents both in their 70's?).

I bought an Echostar Freesat box (~170?) at a low point when I was ready to kick the 5810 around the room, stamp on it, set fire to it and throw it in the bin. But the Echostar is nowhere near the genius of a working toppy with mystuff so I have stuck with it but I can understand why others would not.

_________________
TF5810, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Fm+Sc
TAPs: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; Extend v1.7; MHEG On/Off A3; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; MyStuff 6.4; SecCache (UK) v0.4; (FastScanGUI v0.6b)
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juwlz
Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:19 am Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10802 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
Edit: @macmac, I've just re-read your original post and realise that you already have a 5810, so you'll already know a fair bit of this. I'll leave it here anyway for reference for anybody without a Toppy who is considering buying one.

The 5800 uses different remote codes from a 5810, so having both in the same room means it's easy to control either without interfering with the other.


Firstly, are you a tinkerer, or do you want something that "just works"? Have a read about Toppies, and decide whether a Toppy is the right solution for you at all. The answer will partly depend on how easy it is to get your Toppy and a PC within USB range of each other. Don't expect OTA updates. There haven't been any for at least 4 years now, and Topfield have pretty much given up on UK support. Luckily, that lack is more than made up for by the efforts of forum members here.

5800 vs 5810
Hardware reliability
As you've already seen, 5800s have better ventilation than 5810s, but both should be sited somewhere with plenty of air circulation around them. The Toppy is not a box that you really want to keep in a cupboard or in a HiFi stack, although the addition of a fan can help.

I've had a number of Toppies over the years, but I have had more hardware issues with my 5810 than I have with my 5800s. Of course, my experience is not statistically significant.

Output choices
You can either have HDMI output on a 5810 (but it cannot receive HD, so you may find that your TV can do as good or a better job of upscaling anyway), or RF-out on a 5800 (which you can use to distribute its output to other TVs around the house).

Memory
If you've decided you're at least enough of a tinkerer to want to install TAPs, the 5810 has less memory available, so needs more active managing than a 5800. With MyStuff on a 5800, you can get away without deleting any channels (although there are good reasons to do it anyway); with a 5810 you will almost certainly get problems if you don't get your channel list down to about 40. You'll already have seen FastScanGUI and ChannelOrganiser mentioned. Once you've got those two set up, scanning and cleaning up channels is only a 5-10 minute job, but it does have to be done.

If you haven't found it already, you'll find the sticky thread about hard drives (and the related one about adapaters) in the Firmwares, Enhancements and Upgrades section. Whatever you get, formatting a Toppy hard drive is barely a 2 minute job, once you've installed the drive in it. Toppies use a proprietary file system.

Firmware
Topfield made a bit of a pig's ear of the Freeview+ firmware (which includes SeriesLink functionality). Having said that, with the addition of user contributed patches (whatever you get, you WILL want to update the firmware), many people are quite happy with their Toppy running Freeview+ firmware and no TAPs. The only (known) exception to this is in the Rowridge transmitter area where something odd has happened since DSO, and because the Freeview+ firmware on the Toppy takes some shortcuts, you'll have problems setting SeriesLink timers on BBC channels. The workaround is to use something like MyStuff which has (improved) SeriesLink functionality but actually set individual native timers.

The 5810 is only available with Freeview+ firmware (recommended version is 5.15.09T). The 5800 can run either Freeview+ firmware (the best available option is 5.14.09T) or the more stable non-Freeview+ firmware (recommended version is 5.13.65T).

My personal recommendation
If you want to use the native UI (i.e. no TAPs) and Freeview+ firmware, then go for a 5810. Many of the bug fixes available for it are not available for Freeview+ firmware on the 5800. If you're going to add TAPs and get SeriesLink functionality that way, go for a 5800.

HTH
Julie


Last edited by juwlz on Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:28 am; edited 2 times in total

_________________
5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+BmC0CfCtFsIMPePsR3UUuUxZ
5810, TS On, F/W: F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +BmCfCtFsR3Z
MyStuff info; Help!; Reference
Harmony 885 remote. Sig date 8 April 2012
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juwlz
Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:24 am Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10802 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
slimgym wrote:
It is frustrating to have to fiddle and mess around when the hard drive formats, you lose all your channels, lose your timers, get a corrupt firmware, corrupt settings or any of the other things I've had to deal with. Even a retune becomes a chore, having to delete unwanted channels to save memory!
Quote:
TAPs: TAP Commander 1.34; EIT Sub v0.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Font Manager 1.0d; EPG2MEI v0.96; Extend v1.7; MyInfo B5.1; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyStuff 6.3;
If your sig is up to date, updating to MyStuff 6.4 will help!

_________________
5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+BmC0CfCtFsIMPePsR3UUuUxZ
5810, TS On, F/W: F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +BmCfCtFsR3Z
MyStuff info; Help!; Reference
Harmony 885 remote. Sig date 8 April 2012
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roga
Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:58 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 15 Jul 2006 Posts: 167
alan_m wrote:
Run Myinfo to see what patches have been installed. If you have the Sf patch than no further action is required.

Thanks Alan, yes I do have SF, and seems like I'm getting to understand firmware and patches a bit more.

_________________
TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +UUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; (MyInfo B5.6); SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; PruneEPG 1.0; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyStuff 6.6;
Sig generated by TopManager/PcControl on 21/08/15
?
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alan_m
Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:16 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3505
roga wrote:
alan_m wrote:
Run Myinfo to see what patches have been installed. If you have the Sf patch than no further action is required.

Thanks Alan, yes I do have SF, and seems like I'm getting to understand firmware and patches a bit more.


R2-D2 has a couple of pages where the function of each patch is described in a short paragraph.
http://www.toppy.org.uk/~r2-d2/patches.html
http://www.toppy.org.uk/~r2-d2/indev.html

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