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<  Bugs  ~  film4 stutter problem

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MikeyP
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:08 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 4818
you know the one - film 4 films will only playback seemlessly when a tuner is tuned to film4 (or some others)
if it's not , sound and picture stutter.

I've got the opprtunity to record a ITV4 (I think) film that was on film 4 originally when it first landed on freeview. And I still have the film 4 version.

Do you think there will be something in the header on both versions that will give some reasons for the quirk ??

And do you think the new recording will playback regardless of the channel the toppy is tuned to?

It's duck soup IIRC marx bros - on wed IIRC

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R2-D2
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:59 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
MikeyP wrote:
Do you think there will be something in the header on both versions that will give some reasons for the quirk ??
Maybe, but I suspect that it doesn't require the same material to be recorded in order to investigate it. In fact, the film is likely to give completely different encodings on even the same channel at different times, so it's not going to be a simple "diff", if that what you were hoping. (The actual problem could easily be some esoteric EMMA2 setting that isn't being reset properly when playing a recording -- so it may be very hard to track down.)
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MikeyP
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:08 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 4818
R2-D2 wrote:
In fact, the film is likely to give completely different encodings on even the same channel at different times, so it's not going to be a simple "diff", if that what you were hoping.


yeah I was assuming that they would use the same digital version so there would be similaritys, not reencode a fresh one?
who knows?

I think you could be right

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ryclark
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:48 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 1604 Location: Shropshire
The version (digital or analogue) of the film may be the same but all broadcast material has to be MPEG2 encoded as it goes to air. This is because most of the muxes use stat muxing so the data stream transmitted will depend on what other channels in the mux are broadcasting at the same time.

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MikeyP
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:57 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 4818
course it does - I'd forgotten about that

but maybe they have a few versions of the same film stored at different data rates so choose the one they want put out based on the other channels content on that mux ?

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iron
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:36 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 03 Jun 2005 Posts: 91 Location: Tunbridge Wells, UK
MikeyP wrote
Quote:
Do you think there will be something in the header on both versions that will give some reasons for the quirk


Most probably not. It is suprising given the detail in the header how little is actually required to get playable file.

My experiments in this area have shown that

Service id(offset18) must contain the transport stream program number
PMT_PID(offset 20) must contain the program map table pid
ServiceType(offset 12) must be 0 for Radio and 1 for TV recordings

Other PID fields and the mysterious TunerInfo field may be set to zero implying that the Topfield only uses the three I've mentioned when starting playback of a rec file.

On a slightly different note I've recorded many films from Film4 and have never had any playback problems. Do some people still need to tune to Film4 to get good playback of a Film4 recording?

iron.

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R2-D2
Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:27 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
iron wrote:
Other PID fields and the mysterious TunerInfo field may be set to zero implying that the Topfield only uses the three I've mentioned when starting playback of a rec file.
The Tuner_Info is part of the bigger Service_Info, which is a copy of the channel information used by the system. The top 2 bits are the tuner number (starting from 1, not 0). The next four bits are flags, of which the interesting one is bit 2 (3rd from the left) which indicates whether the service was encrypted. (The "Reserved" 26-bits are actually: top 8-bits=Satellite_Index [0 on the TF5800], bottom 10-bits=Transponder_Index.)

The information in header is largely redundant, as you say, but it does (sometimes!) contain some useful information for helping to decide what may have gone wrong on bad recordings.
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MikeyP
Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:33 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 4818
iron wrote:
Do some people still need to tune to Film4 to get good playback of a Film4 recording?

iron.


apparently so http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10647&highlight=

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Andy K
Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:41 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 14 Jun 2005 Posts: 3520
In another thread it was suggested that bastille was the first firmware version that introduced this bug.

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corofin
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:04 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 48
I've include my reply posted in another thread yesterday.

The problem can be reproduced in my case by selecting Dave, Sky 3 or Sky News,
and then playing a Film4 file. Corruption occurs at 5 to 30 sec. intervals.

These are all in MUX C. Selecting a live source from any other MUX does not affect the playback.

Nothing is being recorded during playback.

Software is 5-13-40. My Stuff installed, but disabled for the test.

Replaying another file from the Film4 MUX (eg UKTV History or TMF) does not cause problems.

Hence bottom line for me is Film4 does not play correctly with the tuner set to a MUX C channel.

Can anyone else confirm this ?
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R2-D2
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:20 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
corofin wrote:
The problem can be reproduced in my case by selecting Dave, Sky 3 or Sky News, and then playing a Film4 file. Corruption occurs at 5 to 30 sec. intervals.
I reproduced this using a short Film4 recording and Sky3. The recording worked fine played starting from watching BBC1. Can anyone even start guessing at the difference between these channels? I thought it could be something like 16QAM, but it's not that. What's different about MuxC? Or, more importantly, what could the Toppy think is different?
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SonicLife
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:43 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 1262
Interactive?
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R2-D2
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:54 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
I don't run with MHEG enabled, but I guess that doesn't mean the stream might can't have an effect. Although, there are plenty of channels without an MHEG service, aren't there?
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Andy K
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:14 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 14 Jun 2005 Posts: 3520
Well I can't reproduce this on my good old firmware using a Film4 recording and Sky3 or Dave.

Infact I don't think I have ever seen it.
(not that I use film4 much)
[/u]

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R2-D2
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:05 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
Andy K wrote:
Well I can't reproduce this on my good old firmware using a Film4 recording and Sky3 or Dave.
And the major change there is the EIT data gathering, isn't it? I suppose it could easily be one of the "minor" changes.
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