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<  TAP and patch development  ~  Correcting the YUV output

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R2-D2
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:00 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
Anybody able to confirm this report? If so, maybe [Vy] VideoYUV will make the change on older firmwares -- or it may be a bit more complicated than that... It should be possible to apply this patch dynamically (and temporarily) using HDFW's "Use firmware in RAM" option and see a change if you alter the video output to something else then back to YUV. (Note that due to the way patching works, this patch can be used to "undo" firmwares with the "correct" setup because the patchers will think it's already applied and so will offer to remove it. Smile)

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humphrey1
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:04 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 205 Location: Hannington
Is this yet another fix for something most of us didn't even realise was broken? Smile

Tht said, I have long used the YUV output to connect to my Sony LCD television and thought that the picture was a little dark. I think I just adjusted the TV settings as best I could and have since got used to it.

I will be keen to try [Vy] out and happy to report back, but won't have access to my Toppy until tonight.

After this latest burst of patches, by my reckoning there's only [J][L][O][Q] and [Y] needed to complete the set!

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humphrey1
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:58 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 205 Location: Hannington
Thank you! Yes, there is an immediate noticeable difference in brightness. Very Happy Is there any point me asking what's been altered or is it all too technical? Laughing

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bdb
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:16 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 499
I can confirm that the yuv output on a recent (14.0Cool firmware is awful and over saturated - see here.

- whether it is any better than previous versions, I've no idea, but this very old reports suggest thst it used to be really awful, rather than just awful.

what does your patch do ? (I can't be bothered to dissasemble + match it against the firmware)
The fault appears to be a hardware design fault - so unless there are some magic emma settings to adjust the gain on the Y independantly from the UV, the external ciruit would be required to improve it.

bdb
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R2-D2
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:57 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
humphrey1 wrote:
Is there any point me asking what's been altered or is it all too technical?
Frankly, I've no idea! Smile
bdb wrote:
what does your patch do ?
It just changes some bits to match the 5.14.09 version. The routine that sets the video output mode seems to set some AVMaxtrix registers according to the mode -- I've no idea about any of that stuff. But significantly the 5.14.09 firmware differs by just the value for YUV mode, so the patch changes things to use that instead. Remarkably this area is wrong/different in various firmwares, but they all share pretty much exactly this code (apart from this difference, and HDMI). The one other difference I found was in FireBird's favourite TF5000 Masterpiece firmware, which seems to preserve one more bit than all the other firmwares (and naively that looks like a bug).

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bdb
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:50 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 499
so, the change appears to be to the value sent to the RGB output control reg (reg 3) of the stv6412a

Code:
03    RGB Gain    x  x  0  0  x  x  x  x      +6dB gain       <--new
                  x  x  0  1  x  x  x  x      +5dB gain
                  x  x  1  0  x  x  x  x      +4dB gain       <--old
                  x  x  1  1  x  x  x  x      +3dB gain

original (< 14.0Cool : 0xa4 == +4dB [the stupid characters are really 8's]
patched (>= 14.0Cool : 0x84 == +6dB

So, the patch is likely to brighten the image on older firmwares; but it will still produce an inferior picture to RGB due the UV saturation.
Bawbagg suggests that it needs to be +6dB on the Y (green) and +3dB on the UV (red/blue).

bdb
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R2-D2
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:07 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
bdb wrote:
so, the change appears to be to the value sent to the RGB output control reg (reg 3) of the stv6412a
Ah... that makes sense now you've hinted what the is. I think I'm missing the connections between the various peripheral bits of hardware and the firmware.
Quote:
Bawbagg suggests that it needs to be +6dB on the Y (green) and +3dB on the UV (red/blue).
If this isn't a limitation of the STV6412A hardware then it might also be adjustable...

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Lawtie
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:13 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 09 Sep 2005 Posts: 457
bdb wrote:
[the stupid characters are really 8's]


If you edit and put a space between the 8 and the ) the 'cool' smiley will be no more...

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Andy K
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:19 pm Reply with quote
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R2-D2
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:12 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
With the tip about STV6412A, it appears that FireBird's favourite TF5000 MP firmware preserves the following bit (and never seems to set it, although I could be wrong):
Code:
  04   RF Output   X X X X X X 0 X   CVBS to RF Output
                   X X X X X X 1 X   Y+C to RF Output
On other firmwares, this bit is set by the S-Video choice (but it isn't on FireBird's). OK, so could it be a hardware difference? Not likely, since other TF5000MP firmwares have the normal code... Confused

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R2-D2
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:20 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
Finally got an appropriate cable and connected the Toppy up via Component to my TV. There are a few differences I noticed between the RGB and Component versions of the output on my TV:
  • The RGB connection can show a picture (of sorts) when the Toppy is set to output Component (so it's swamped by green), but this doesn't work the other way round. This is handy for when swapping between one and the other, and I hope it doesn't do any damage!
  • The Component picture was definitely too dull without the patch, and seemed to need no adjustments to my normal brightness/contrast/colour settings once the patch was applied.
  • The RGB image seemed sharper, but I suspect that's just more noise than anything else.
  • The Component signal seemed to supply slightly more (too much?) of the image, with an initial and trailing part of a line being outside the proper image. So I had to turn on the Overscan setting to clip the image, which I don't for the RGB mode.
The Toppy is now back to using the RGB connection, primarily because the cable was actually bought for the DVD player, but I don't think I'll be splashing out on another Component cable for the Toppy.

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Bawbagg
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:48 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 11 Aug 2005 Posts: 1122
I just found this thread and applied the patch.

Of course, I already have the hardware "patch" (attenuating U & V by 2dB) in my component cable, so my results may be skewed a little - however there was a noticeable increase in brightness with the patch applied. I adjusted brightness settings down and compared picture with my V+ box (connected by HDMI). It remains just a little bit softer (which might be expected from a scaled analogue picture) - but colour and brightness matching is far superior. Great work. The fact that I have comparable results with the attenuator circuit (as per this post) hints that Topfield haven't quite got it right.

Quote:
Bawbagg suggests that it needs to be +6dB on the Y (green) and +3dB on the UV (red/blue)
Yup - U and V should be 3dB down on Y. If we can fix this in firmware then that would be excellent as it will save others faffing with the attenuator circuit, and will make the component image comparable to RGB "out of the box" so to speak.

This is a tremendously interesting area - I was browsing the datasheet for the STV6412A - there's a pile of stuff in there referring to slow blanking mode (otherwise known as pin 8 scart auto-switching). Could we disable this if toppy boots up for a timer, but leave it enabled if manually powered up?? Even going as far as to disable audio and video output if booting only to record??

At the moment, the obvious solution is to cut pin 8 of the scart lead, but that also stops 4:3 / 16:9 autoswitching - which is becoming less of an issue these days, but irritating nonetheless.

Do we have complete control over all the registers in the STV6412A via firmware??

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R2-D2
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:11 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
Bawbagg wrote:
Could we disable this if toppy boots up for a timer, but leave it enabled if manually powered up?
I think FireBird and DeadBeef have been there a long, long time before us, and there's already stuff that manipulates things in this area. The trouble with the timer boot is not working out what to do (since that's already known) -- the initial switch is done by the Loader code which can't be changed (not easily, and not by any sensible person, anyway).
Quote:
Even going as far as to disable audio and video output if booting only to record?
Topfield missed a chance to fix the Loader on the newer models, so I doubt they'll get around to a proper soft recording mode. But, yes, this is how it would be done.
Quote:
Do we have complete control over all the registers in the STV6412A via firmware?
The firmware holds local copies of the registers, if that's what you mean (obviously it sets the hardware registers to achieve various things). There are all sorts of defaults it sets up that are ripe for patching, including a volume boost, or even disabling the soft volume control.

The trouble with the YUV output may not lie with this switch, though. The Component signal is treated in pretty much the same way as the RGB signal, which is not surprising, given that the same pins are used. So it's the input to the switch (from the EMMA2 chipset?) that may need fiddling with.

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gomezz
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:34 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 3985 Location: Buckingham
[quote="R2-D2"]
Bawbagg wrote:
Quote:
Even going as far as to disable audio and video output if booting only to record?

Topfield missed a chance to fix the Loader on the newer models, so I doubt they'll get around to a proper soft recording mode.

This is what the PowerDown TAP does effectively. But I may well be missing some subtlety about this discussion.

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R2-D2
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:51 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
gomezz wrote:
This is what the PowerDown TAP does effectively.
It may do, but only after the Loader has switched the Scart on and interrupted viewing on some TVs.

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