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<  TAP and patch development  ~  [Ct] CutPoints and [Cf] CutFix

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R2-D2
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:43 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
Further to the general discussion, here are a couple of patches to enable this seemingly hidden feature properly:

[Ct] CutPoints is the main fix, so the fading and muting should now be apparent.

[Cf] CutFix is the fix needed for most TF58x0 firmwares (and some TF500/600 firmwares) to prevent the Resume mark overwriting the cut data, so this feature will continue to work every time you play the file (note: this patch won't fix existing recordings).

(If you haven't a clue what this is about, go read the stuff linked above.)

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glenmcfar
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:49 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 4519 Location: Dundonald, Ayrshire, Scotland
Oh no, patches I might not need.... Are there any benefits anywhere else, or ONLY when pausing recordings?

Glen.

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R2-D2
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:02 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
glenmcfar wrote:
Are there any benefits anywhere else, or ONLY when pausing recordings?
Did anyone ever tell you that you're impatient? Smile Once this is refined and working then I'm thinking of adding support to CutAds (quite why it's not in the native editing, I don't know...).

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glenmcfar
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:08 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 4519 Location: Dundonald, Ayrshire, Scotland
R2-D2 wrote:
Did anyone ever tell you that you're impatient? Smile


No, but I've heard 'Wait a minute!' directed at me on more than one occasion Laughing I love all these patches you throw at us but I get a bit disappointed if I can't come up with a good reason to apply it. Mind you, I can usually find a good reason - I'm up past 40 applied patches now!!!!!

R2-D2 wrote:
Once this is refined and working then I'm thinking of adding support to CutAds (quite why it's not in the native editing, I don't know...).


Mike will be happy. Me too! I love Cut Ads - all that topping and tailing with the progress bar that I used to have to do, yeurgh.

Glen.

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R2-D2
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:15 pm Reply with quote
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glenmcfar wrote:
I get a bit disappointed if I can't come up with a good reason to apply it.
Isn't being the second person in the world to see what they'd really intended reason enough?

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glenmcfar
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:21 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 4519 Location: Dundonald, Ayrshire, Scotland
In the whole wide world? When you put it like that....

Glen.

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mike.hinson
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:40 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 1735 Location: Bordon, Hants UK
glenmcfar wrote:
Mike will be happy. Me too! I love Cut Ads - all that topping and tailing with the progress bar that I used to have to do, yeurgh.

Glen.
Of course he will. I love testing this stuff, but if I am really honest I don't use it very much, but I do see the beauty in it & enjoy pressing it to be as good as it can be. I have used CutFile twice in anger & the normal people complained because they said they liked having their programs stuck together Rolling Eyes Maybe a merge TAP is what they need & I will stick the whole lot together & see how they like that! I imagine it would only play up to the first channel change Wink I am sure they will get used to it in time & I have used CutAds a few more times now without getting any complaints.

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simonc
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:42 pm Reply with quote
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The main problem with CutAds is the conditioned response to lunge for the red button on the remote whenever any kind of cliffhanger or summing up occurs.
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glenmcfar
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:50 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 4519 Location: Dundonald, Ayrshire, Scotland
I use the very handy QuickJump (you may have heard of it Rolling Eyes ) to jump 3 minutes at a time right thru a recording. When I land in an advert I then use binary jumping (with that handy feature which seeds the BJ with last button pressed Cool ) to find the start of the advert. Bingo bango bongo. Adverts found. Watch at a later date!

Glen.

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mike.hinson
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:31 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 1735 Location: Bordon, Hants UK
R2-D2 wrote:
Further to the general discussion, here are a couple of patches to enable this seemingly hidden feature properly:
Umm...

I understand why they conceived the idea, but I think the blanking period is way too long (I guessed it was about 3 seconds). I wonder if just the audio mute could be extracted and applied for 500ms at the join to mask to very occasional noises you get on cuts? I suspect that if the blanking period was made shorter then it would sometimes miss the glitch & perhaps that would look bad too.

It is nice to see what they intended, but I have never been a fan of transition effects, preferring to see the next view as soon as possible in almost every case. No doubt there are other educational benefits from following how this behaviour is achieved.
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humphrey1
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:43 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 205 Location: Hannington
R2-D2 wrote:

[Cf] CutFix is the fix needed for most TF58x0 firmwares (and some TF500/600 firmwares) to prevent the Resume mark overwriting the cut data, so this feature will continue to work every time you play the file (note: this patch won't fix existing recordings).


I've tried making some short recordings from BBC1 and some from Dave each with a pause recorded in. On first playback they fade to black and back beautifully. On subsequent playings: no fade at all and you can see the usual glitch.

Confused

Running FW and TAPs as per signature below.

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R2-D2
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:59 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
humphrey1 wrote:
On subsequent playings: no fade at all and you can see the usual glitch.
There is another bug where if you play a file and stop it after the first (or n-th) transition and start it again (or from before the n-th transition) then it won't show that transition. Could probably be fixed...

I'm thinking of changing [Cf] anyway to give compatibility with old files.

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R2-D2
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:13 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
mike.hinson wrote:
I understand why they conceived the idea, but I think the blanking period is way too long (I guessed it was about 3 seconds).
It is around 3s, and it's not too long. By now I'd expect you to be more than familiar with the vagaries of bitrates and the firmware's mechanism for deciding the point that's being displayed (e.g. the inaccurate setting of bookmarks). I did alter the frequency with which the check is made and adjust various other parameters, but just about everything I tried could not avoid the glitch at one end or the other (overall all the transitions in a file) so, given that I was just using a random example, I decided that to leave the existing parameters, which achieved the intended result.

One version I played with had a much faster fade (in fact, it just seemed to blank), but the existing one seemed much nicer. This doesn't add much time to the overall transition, either.

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mike.hinson
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:08 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 1735 Location: Bordon, Hants UK
R2-D2 wrote:
...By now I'd expect you to be more than familiar with the vagaries of bitrates and the firmware's mechanism for deciding the point that's being displayed (e.g. the inaccurate setting of bookmarks)...
Sure, but isn't this just exchanging one video defect with a different (bigger) one?

Perhaps if the transition effect could be suspended in the case where it blanked something important? would that would be helpful? maybe playback with the play bar on-screen reveals the video without the transition effect?

I can't see myself using this patch, so please don't spend your time implementing my suggestions unless you thing they will be of general benefit to yourself or others.

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R2-D2
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:13 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
mike.hinson wrote:
Sure, but isn't this just exchanging one video defect with a different (bigger) one?
I'll say it again, but your quest for perfect editing is something that's very easy on the PC (using existing tools) and isn't very easy on the Toppy. You've complained about the audio (and video) glitch that sometimes happens with the Toppy's simple editing, so it's obviously something that bothers you -- this is Topfield's own way of solving that issue and the idea works perfectly, within capabilities of the simple mechanisms available. If you're now happy with the occasional audio glitch on edited files, then clearly you've no need for this. Confused
Quote:
maybe playback with the play bar on-screen reveals the video without the transition effect?
You can ffwd or slow-mo (or rwd) through it.

[Ct] V2 just optimises it a tiny bit, and [Cf] V2 is a better fix for most TF58x0 firmwares (and some TF500/600 firmwares) -- this adds compatibility with old files (but not [Cf] V1 ones!).

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