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<  TAP and patch development  ~  Using 2 Toppies: RemExt patch, RemoteExtender Toppy2 TAP

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gomezz
Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:36 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 3996 Location: Buckingham
dannyc wrote:
The code list a couple of replies back from underquark is what you want. Just left-pad the first code with 0s until it is 5 numbers long.

Now why didn't I think to try that? Confused

I will blame it on being ill on Monday and not quite with it for the rest of the week.

Will give it a try Tuesday / Wednesday which is my logical weekend but will trial the odd button later today after I have had a post-work nap.

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TF5800, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+BmC0CbCfCtDEgEmEvEzIMPePsVdZ
TAPs: Power Down 0.75; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; TAP Commander 1.34; MyInfo B5.4; EPG2MEI v0.96;
Extend v1.7; EIT Sub v0.6; mei2archive BETA 3.8l6; Font Manager 1.0d; (Power Restore V0.7.3b)
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bdb
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:11 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 499
I picked up a 2nd toppy yesterday (black, 250gb, playback sticker (but loaded with 13.40!), jlewis, 120 - a bit surprised they still had some left ...), so then hit the 2 boxes, 1 remote issue.

This tap is my attempt to overcome things: remote_sharer_v0.01.zip


The tap assumes a configuration similar to:
Code:
      ______             ________________             ______________
     |      |           |                |           |              |
     |  tv  +---scart---+tv           vcr+---scart---+tv         vcr+----scart----
     |______|           |________________|           |______________|
                        topfield1                    topfield2

use 'sat' key to select active box
- 1st press, shows which box you are talking to
- 2nd press (within 3 seconds) switches active toppy

toppy1:
- ignores the 'sat' button
- monitors vcr scart
if it detects no device on the vcr scart, it enables its tv scart output, enables its remote
if it detects a device on the vcr scart, it sets itself in passthrough mode, disables its remote

toppy 2:
- monitors 'sat' button
when clear it enables its tv scart output, enables its remote,
when set it disables its tv scart output, disables its remote

- tap should be first in load order
- tap should run on both toppies
- .ini file sets parameters


still a bit to do:
- tap does not inhibit << >> keys
this causes chaos on the 'disabled' box if you use them - I need to figure out r2's hack
- if watching box1, and box2 changes aspect ratio, it will momentarily switch to box2 - fixed?
- filter on/off button [both boxes will turn on/off together]
- automatically swap to be the first tap [you need to do this manually]
- support for >2 toppies [anyone got more than 2?]
- differentiate between toppy on vcr scart, and other device [use code on slow blanking?]
- support for other device on toppy 2 vcr scart port
- more .ini settings
- any more requests?

bdb
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R2-D2
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:21 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
bdb wrote:
- tap does not inhibit << >> keys
Simplest thing may be to have the [Cp] patch on both and (since yours is the first TAP) you can then absorb the KEY_Flag_Push and KEY_Flag_Click flagged events as well as the other ones you're absorbing (assuming that's what you're doing).
Quote:
- filter on/off button [both boxes will turn on/off together]
I think there's nothing you can do about turning on, but a simple way to inhibit turning off (a bit) is using the [Po] patch. Or, at least, that's the sort of area that needs looking at.

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gomezz
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:32 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 3996 Location: Buckingham
bdb wrote:
This tap is my attempt to overcome things: remote_sharer_v0.01.zip

That sounds great using a similar strategy to the KeyStopper TAP I am currently trialling but even better thought out (and for which development seems to have stopped). I really do need to redo the planned re-cabling of my AV kit which includes daisy-chaining the two Toppys as you illustrate. Then I will be able to give RemoteSharer a spin.

BTW I found I needed have the PowerDown TAP load before KeyStopper to get it to work properly. I suspect the same will be true of this new TAP.

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TAPs: Power Down 0.75; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; TAP Commander 1.34; MyInfo B5.4; EPG2MEI v0.96;
Extend v1.7; EIT Sub v0.6; mei2archive BETA 3.8l6; Font Manager 1.0d; (Power Restore V0.7.3b)
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juwlz
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:10 am Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10804 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
bdb wrote:
- any more requests?bdb
See this earlier post Wink

My Toppies are both fed into an Amplifier which handles everything so that there is only one feed into the TV, so I definitely wouldn't want anything that does anything specific with SCART cables. The Amp (and my Harmony's commands to it) determines which Toppy's output I see and hear.

Julie

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juwlz
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:18 am Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10804 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
P.S. I confess to running a pair of hard-coded Toppy Switcher TAPs (one on each Toppy) from BobD which do much the same as the above, but without any configuration options. (It's one he wrote for himself and modified slightly to fit my setup.) One very useful thing that it does is to display a Locked message on the Locked Toppy as well as a message on the Unlocked one - so I can lock the "currently watched" toppy and THEN switch to the other one and be SURE that the now unwatched one is locked, and hasn't lost any key presses - which mine seem to do a lot! (Maybe it's my firmware?, but no patches I've installed have ever made a difference so far.)

I have had some instances of weird CTs being set up on the "other" Toppy when it must have been reacting to key presses on the one we thought we were using, so we're trying to get into the "lock-then-switch" habit.

Julie

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dannyc
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:26 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 May 2006 Posts: 140
I have my two Toppies plugged into a 4 x SCART switch box that has an IR remote interface. Then run REtoppy2 on one Toppy, and have an URC7555 set up for TV, VHS, DVD, Toppy1, Toppy2 - when pressing the SAT or AMP buttons on the remote, macros switch the SCART box channel and select the right keycode list for the Toppy - just one press to switch between any device.

Danny.
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bdb
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:53 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 499
juwlz wrote:
See this earlier post Wink


funny - it was that post that got me started ...

Do you use the harmony to control the toppy? - if so, why not just setup one toppy to use an alternate codeset.

How do you get the video out - scart/composite/svideo?


I'd be interested in understanding how people have their 2 toppies wired up so that I can configure this to be as flexible as possible.

Since there is no way to guarentee that both toppies will always see all the r/c commands it is important to have some other form of communication between them. The scart connection is ideal for this; even if it is not used for A/V.

It would be possible to use the vcr-scart to vcr-scart just for the comms, leaving the tv-scarts as permanently on A/V; which would provide access to the RGB/component signals.

A message on the led might be useful.
I thought about lighting the amber led to indicate the active (or disabled) box.

The more robust scart communication on this tap should alleviate the need to lock the other box. With my setup, you are always in control of the box that is providing the picture.


I've not tried it yet; but running r2's [Cp] patch should fix the <</>> buttons.
I'll add it to the tap if it does work.

bdb
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juwlz
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:51 am Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10804 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
bdb wrote:
funny - it was that post that got me started ...
Nice to be of service Wink
Quote:
Do you use the harmony to control the toppy? - if so, why not just setup one toppy to use an alternate codeset.
Partly because it's just too much like hard work, and partly because one Toppy has a Slingbox hanging off it, and the other has a wireless AV sender. You can't configure anything useful on the Slingbox - you're stuck with whatever codes they've deigned to implement ... which isn't even all of the keys on the remote by any means. (e.g. Menu means Archive, and the White button doesn't exist and can't be fudged - so a whole new keyset is a total non-starter.) And we use the original remotes to control the Toppy via the AV sender when watching elsewhere in the house, without the benefit of the Amp.
Quote:
How do you get the video out - scart/composite/svideo?
Haven't the faintest idea. The amp is Andy's box of tricks, and I leave him to sort it out Wink. Hopefully he'll post an answer.
Quote:
I'd be interested in understanding how people have their 2 toppies wired up so that I can configure this to be as flexible as possible.
When we were setting up the two Toppies the other weekend, we found that using SCART to TV (not sure where FROM) mucked some things up, so we ditched it. IIRC, we got problems with aspect ratio switching when switching between Toppies and the DVD player or something. Again, Andy can probably elucidate.
Quote:
Since there is no way to guarantee that both toppies will always see all the r/c commands it is important to have some other form of communication between them. The SCART connection is ideal for this; even if it is not used for A/V.
We've (just, tonight) tried to minimise problems by sending the Sat, <toppy num> sequence both on starting the relevant Toppy Activity on the Harmony (which should respond with a "Silver Toppy unlocked" or "Black Toppy unlocked" display on screen as appropriate), and also on exit from the Activity (which should respond with a "Silver Toppy locked" or "Black Toppy locked" as appropriate). This is using BobD's hard-coded TAP.

This means that the Use "other" Toppy activity on the Harmony sends the Sat, <other Toppy> sequence, then switches to the other Toppy, and finally sends the Sat <this Toppy> sequence again (the same sequence, but now we're using the other Toppy). This a) results in a visual confirmation (or lack of it) that the Toppy you're switching away from HAS been locked, and b) gives us a second chance at locking it anyway.

I've also got different MyStuff skins on each Toppy as another visual way of differentiating between machines. (Just press Info/Guide/Archive to get both info about what's on and info about which Toppy you're watching.)
Quote:
It would be possible to use the vcr-scart to vcr-scart just for the comms, leaving the tv-scarts as permanently on A/V; which would provide access to the RGB/component signals.
Interesting thought - totally over my head in anything other than concept Wink. Feel free to elaborate if anybody less dense than me would need any more info on how to do this.
Quote:
A message on the led might be useful.
Indeed. I did think right from the outset that it would be good if anything could be done using the TF5000 Display TAP.
Quote:
I thought about lighting the amber led to indicate the active (or disabled) box.
Can't for the life of me remember what I've got that set up to mean in the Display TAP, so might as well use it for indicating which Toppy is listening! Is there (API access to) a Red LED? How about Green LED for listening and Red/Orange LED for locked? Or maybe solid amber for locked, and blinking amber for listening? (Does anything natively use the amber LED? If not, that's definitely a good one to use if you use blinking/solid amber as your indicator, as absence of amber LED means "TAP not running at all - press buttons at your peril" Wink ). Don't know how this would interact with TF5000 Display, of course ... but I would happily change the config of that to leave the amber LED alone, or whatever.
Quote:
The more robust scart communication on this tap should alleviate the need to lock the other box. With my setup, you are always in control of the box that is providing the picture.
That would certainly deal with any potential problems if one of us wants to watch one Toppy via Slingbox or AV sender, while the other is using the other one. As things stand now, we'd still have to resort to physical barriers around the IR sensor. (btw, I even got the manual out, to try to find out - where exactly IS the IR sensor?)

Looks like we'd better work out how to set up the Toppies so that we can try out and use your TAP Wink. Not likely to happen in the near future, I'm afraid, as we're both working late atm, and away this weekend.

Julie

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5810, TS On, F/W: F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +BmCfCtFsR3Z
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juwlz
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:01 am Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10804 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
juwlz wrote:
bdb wrote:
The more robust scart communication on this tap should alleviate the need to lock the other box. With my setup, you are always in control of the box that is providing the picture.
That would certainly deal with any potential problems if one of us wants to watch one Toppy via Slingbox or AV sender, while the other is using the other one. As things stand now, we'd still have to resort to physical barriers around the IR sensor.
DOH! Forget I said that. Blonde moment Rolling Eyes! It won't make any difference at all. We'd still need each Toppy to listen to its own remote and only its own remote in that scenario. One of them not listening at all doesn't help.

The only way to do that reliably is to use different key codes ... or implement Andy's Heath Robinson automatic door flap idea to cover the IR receiver + the repeater for the remote device for the Toppy that's being accessed remotely to keep its own signals to itself and block out those for the other Toppy Cool. Luckily, it's not something we're likely to need on a regular basis ... or we could put one of the Toppies in a different room and have done with it.

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bdb
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:59 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 499
- you could probably still control both boxes from either remote (just not simulaneously); you may just need to re-select your box if its remote is currently inactive. An option to prevent the output being disabled from the inactive box might also be needed depending on which outputs you are using.

remote_sharer_v0.02.zip
- upate to include [Cp] patch - (fixes << >> keys)

bdb
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juwlz
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:37 am Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10804 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
Well yes, the issue is more a case of each user ONLY being able to control the box THEY are watching, without either disabling the other box or inadvertantly sending commands to it.

Realistically, it would be very rare for neither of us to be in the lounge and both of us wanting to watch a Toppy (i.e. one using the Slingbox, and the other using the AV sender), so for those rare occasions, a good old-fashioned bit of cardboard would do the trick nicely. One of us would at least have to be in the house anyway to deploy said piece of cardboard, as the AV sender will only send within the house (unless the neighbours have one on the same frequency too!)

Julie

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juwlz
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:45 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10804 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
bdb wrote:
url=http://www.toppy.org.uk/~offdigital/remote_sharer_v0.02.zip]remote_sharer_v0.02.zip[/url]
- upate to include [Cp] patch - (fixes << >> keys)bdb
Hi bdb

Does this version still require the SCART cabling as in your diagram? Or is it worth me giving it a try? (I've run into the same Cp patch problem with BobD's hardwired version.)

I've had a look at it, and the ini file, which appears to have an option not to need the SCART stuff, but I'm not sure what all the options are for, given that I can't run it Sad (see below)

I've just tried downloading and running it anyway, and I get
"Unsupported platform - 456:1365" Shocked

Julie

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bdb
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:40 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 499
I have a new version that is a little more flexible.
- the 2 boxes do need to be joined together in some way via scart.
It will support:
Code:
a)
      ______             ________________             ______________
     |      |           |                |           |              |
     |  tv  +---scart---+tv           vcr<---scart---+tv         vcr+----scart----
     |______|           |________________|           |______________|
                        topfield1                    topfield2

b)
      ______             ________________
     |      |           |                |
     |  tv  +---scart---+tv           vcr<---scart---+
     |______|           |________________|           |
                        topfield1                    |
     ______              ________________            |
     |      |           |                |           |
     |  tv  +---scart---+tv           vcr+---scart--->
     |______|           |________________|
                        topfield2
but - if you cannot load it ...

It should currently support 13.40, 13.65, 14.08 - I've only tried it on 13.40, 14.08.
Is your signature upto date? - it could be that one of the patches is fooling the version detection.

try this tap, which will print out some debug info:
version_detect_v0.01.zip

bdb
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juwlz
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:57 am Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10804 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
Sig is slightly out of date. I currently have the current MyStuff recommended firmware (which I think adds NITFix to what's listed in my sig), plus Cp ... and I *KNOW* you've done a fix for that Wink

Here it is: BfBqCeCpCyDeEcErEsFGmHMhNfPPcPfRReRpRsSSrStT2X...
(I guess HDFW doesn't have room to show the end of the patch string, and I assume I still have XpXw).

Julie

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