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<  TAPs  ~  CutFile & JoinFile, CutAds & JoinAds

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R2-D2
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:20 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
Edit: currently v1.3.

CutFile splits a file at the bookmark positions. If these bookmarks have been placed (accurately) by AccurateBM then this will have the effect of cutting the programmes out of a single .rec file into their own .rec files (i.e. de-merging the merged recordings that might be produced by various TAPs). If the bookmarks aren't very accurate then you can adjust them using the native Toppy playback search bar and the Green and Yellow buttons (and you may find that the Bookmark [Bm] patch helps with doing this). If you run the TAP while playing back a recording you can choose to cut that file, otherwise you'll go straight to the file selector.

To make best use of the cutter you'll need the v3.8l6 or newer of DX's mei2archive (at time of writing, this is the test version) -- this will ensure that the cut parts have nice names and the header is filled in with the right programme. In this mode, if mei2archive is not available or it fails to find a matching event then the cuts parts will be named "CUT_XYZ.N.rec", where XYZ is a combination of the channel name and the start time of the original recording and N is a sequence number. Alternatively, if you press Play to select a file and "Just Cut" it, the parts will be named "FILE-CUT.N.rec", where FILE is the base of the original file. In all cases, however, the first part (usually the pre-padding) will not be renamed and the description will not be adjusted. This is partly because those will most likely be roughly correct, but primarily so that the JoinFile can put everything back to how it was before. The names of the other files that are produced are briefly displayed during cutting, and can also be found in FILE.cut, where FILE is the original filename. This file is required by:

JoinFile reverses the actions of CutFile, using the .cut file that it produces. It checks the contents of the parts and will not join arbitrary files. (If successful, the .cut file is deleted.)

CutAds is a little bit like CutFile but in this case the each pair of bookmarks should mark the start and end of a section of the programme, so the first bookmark should be placed at the start of the programme. (Looking at this another way, the first bookmark is the end of the ads before the programme, and subsequent pairs of bookmarks mark the start and end of ad breaks, with an [optional] final bookmark at the start of the ad break after the end of the programme.) The ads are cut from the file into a FILE-ADS.rec file, where FILE is the original filename -- this should be a fairly small file and is probably best deleted (once you've checked the cut).

Note that this cutting is bookmark-accurate and can (as with any simplistic cutting) give appear to give cuts slightly different to that indicated by the bookmarks (dependent on the bitrate and specific details of the image data at the cut points). If you run the TAP while playing back a recording you can choose to cut that file, otherwise you'll go straight to the file selector. Also produced is a FILE.ads file containing the data needed to reverse the cutting process:

JoinAds reverses the actions of CutAds, using the .ads file that it produces. (If successful, the .ads file is deleted.)


Last edited by R2-D2 on Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:59 pm; edited 4 times in total

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mike.hinson
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:52 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 1735 Location: Bordon, Hants UK
Thanks very much R2-D2 & DX I know a lot of effort has gone into this.

When I first used it I thought I had to put a bookmark right at the end of the program too (which you can if you need to trim the end), but you don't need to if the film goes right to the end of the file allready.

I mention this because setting a book mark right at the very end of a recording is a hard thing to do & if you try to do it & it is not quite at the end it trims a slice off that you don't want it to.

in a nut shell, if the film goes to the end of the recording, you dont need to put a bookmark at the end of the film. (I am sure R2-D2 will say it better).

CutFile cut nicely for me, but didn't rename, perhaps my recording was too old? (May 5th) I feel like I could use a bit of guidance about when it will rename & when to not expect it to. Or are there any ,ini file setting to change with mei2archive? (used latest test version3.816).

Thanks
/\/\
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neilpercy
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:16 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 224
Glad to see this TAP has made it to the mainstream, I've used it sucessfully during it's development and it works well.

and nice tip mike..... I know I wouldn't have worked that out by myself. I'm sure I'd've ended up continually trying to set that last bookmark right at the end!! Confused


AS to the above-
R2-D2 wrote:
If the bookmarks aren't very accurate then you can adjust them using the native Toppy playback search bar and the Green and Yellow buttons.

I feel complelled to point out that this has to be done BEFORE CutFile is used - It may well be obvious, but might not be the best way to find out that it's not obvious! (except that there is always the option to use JoinFile)

I'm also confused as to how mei2archive is to be used. I have tried it in manual mode after the recordings have been made, and it does show some other programme information available, but not relevant to the parts of the newly cut file.

Do I need mei2archive running in the background whilst the recording is being made in order to use it on the separate pieces of the 'cut file'?

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TAPs: (EIT Sub v0.6 SnG); Goldfish 0.5; MyStuff 6.4; Tap Launcher 3.10; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; TAP Commander 1.34; Extend v1.7; Skip 1.34a (TF5800PVR); MHEG On/Off A3; mei2archive BETA 3.8l7; MyInfo B5.6; FFWD v0.7; TSSaver v0.5;
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R2-D2
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:33 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
mike.hinson wrote:
When I first used it I thought I had to put a bookmark right at the end of the program too
Usually the end is fluff (post-padding or the next programme) -- if your programme runs right to the end then I imagine you're missing a bit! The start and end of the file do not need bookmarks because it's fairly obvious where they are. Smile The only bookmark you need to be careful about is that you've started with a bookmark at the start of a programme for CutAds. Otherwise the cutters just do what you might expect.
Quote:
CutFile cut nicely for me, but didn't rename, perhaps my recording was too old? (May 5th) I feel like I could use a bit of guidance about when it will rename & when to not expect it to.
Was it the first part? (They aren't adjusted, as detailed above.) Did it adjust the header? If you open mei2archive's manual screen and select the recording then I think it'll show what data it has for that recording (or the closest match).

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R2-D2
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:38 am Reply with quote
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neilpercy wrote:
Do I need mei2archive running in the background whilst the recording is being made in order to use it on the separate pieces of the 'cut file'?
It does need the data to be around. So the best thing is to have mei2archive in Auto Start and running in Auto mode, which will have the benefit of keeping your headers up-to-date (and did you know that normally it puts in a combined description for all programmes in a merge? -- very handy if you archive a merged recording off to a PC).

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mike.hinson
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:35 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 1735 Location: Bordon, Hants UK
R2-D2 wrote:
Was it the first part? (They aren't adjusted, as detailed above.) Did it adjust the header? If you open mei2archive's manual screen and select the recording then I think it'll show what data it has for that recording (or the closest match).
Hi,
It was the second part (a film)
The header remained the same (it had the first part header & film as extended info already)
Running mei2archive manualy report "do data in mei"
Looking in \ProgramFiles\MEI Archive\ shows there is no file for the date in question.

I was trying to get it to rename a file created before I started using mei2archive so obviously mei2archive has no data about my recording.

case closed Very Happy

edited below to avoid confusion on the basis of R2-D2's answer further below: Re CutAds
There must always be a bookmark (B) at the start of the program.

case 1 (padding but no ads)
--fluff--B---prog---B--fluff--

case 2 (no padding one add )
B---prog---B--Ads--B---prog---

case 3 (padding one add )
--fluff--B---prog---B--Ads--B--prog---B--fluff--

case 4 (pre padding one add no end padding)
--fluff--B---prog---B--Ads--B---prog---

Thanks,
/\/\


Last edited by mike.hinson on Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:41 am; edited 2 times in total
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tichtich
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:02 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1389 Location: Eastbourne, UK
Based on the discussion in the development thread... would I be right in thinking that CutFile will only work correctly (putting in the correct programme names and descriptions) if you are using MEI files (as that's where the info comes from)? It won't take the names and descriptions from the multi-programme headers already created by mei2archive?

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Richard Wein
Firmware: 5.13.65 (patched). Auto Start TAPs: TapCommander 1.0.2, Power Down 0.6, DescriptionExtender 2.2, mei2archive 3.8I3, Automove 1.8, QuickJump 1.54, Improbox 2.1RC8, Jag's EPG 3.0b3 (TV & radio), Media Manager 1.5, MHEG Control A2g, Extend 1.7. PC apps: DGtoTop 1.1. Profile last updated 13/05/2009
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R2-D2
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:13 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
tichtich wrote:
It won't take the names and descriptions from the multi-programme headers already created by mei2archive?
It hands over everything to mei2archive, which I think is the best place for this sort of thing. mei2archive could, in theory, analyse the existing header and adjust it, but if this came from mei2archive in the first place (highly recommended!) then it ought to have the right info around to do the parts.

At the moment I think the support from mei2archive is fine. Ideally it would analyse the file timestamp and duration in the header and find the closest match (or matches), but it seems to work well enough as it is (although it inevitably messes up really short programmes, like the stupidly short news on five which rarely seems to actually fit in its scheduled slot).

Of course, you can adjust things manually if you like, using various tools. And maybe other TAPs (like MyStuff) might also add support (the "CUT_XYZ.NN.rec" naming was designed to help MyStuff as much as possible).

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mike.hinson
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:17 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 1735 Location: Bordon, Hants UK
tichtich wrote:
Based on the discussion in the development thread... would I be right in thinking that CutFile will only work correctly (putting in the correct programme names and descriptions) if you are using MEI files (as that's where the info comes from)? It won't take the names and descriptions from the multi-programme headers already created by mei2archive?
That is right at present.
My example above failed because although mei2archive had put the information into the extended header, mei2archive had also I presume deleted older copies of the mei archive files. I expect there is a setting to allow the archive to remain longer, I will have a look.

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R2-D2
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:20 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
mike.hinson wrote:
since it is very had to get bookmarks (B) right at the start & end
In my experience, given that the bookmark is set a bit back from the "current" position, setting a bookmark at the very start is quite easy.
Quote:
or will case 2 need a bookmark at the very start as well?
As above, you need to make sure there is a bookmark at the start of the programme. If you've missed the start then, yes, the bookmark needs to be at the very start of the file... but why would you want to miss the start? Confused

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R2-D2
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:24 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
mike.hinson wrote:
I expect there is a setting to allow the archive to remain longer, I will have a look.
This is probably just an initialisation issue. CutAds wasn't around when that recording was made so you couldn't have de-merged it then. And don't forget that the header is not updated if the data can't be found, so (if you had been using mei2archive at that point) it's just got too much info in it, rather than the wrong programme. Smile

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mike.hinson
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:29 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 1735 Location: Bordon, Hants UK
R2-D2 wrote:
...If you've missed the start then, yes, the bookmark needs to be at the very start of the file... but why would you want to miss the start? Confused
You would not want to miss the start. But even less would you want to slice another 5 seconds off if the theme music had already started. I will edit my post above so it does not mislead the casual reader.

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tichtich
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:10 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1389 Location: Eastbourne, UK
R2-D2 wrote:
It hands over everything to mei2archive, which I think is the best place for this sort of thing.

Agreed. You've already persuaded me on that point. Wink
R2-D2 wrote:
mei2archive could, in theory, analyse the existing header and adjust it, but if this came from mei2archive in the first place (highly recommended!) then it ought to have the right info around to do the parts.

That's not the case if (like me) you're using mei2archive in "internal EIT" mode, i.e. getting its data from the Toppy EIT, not from MEI files. Unless you run CutFile very soon after making the recording, the data for those programmes will have disappeared from the internal EIT.

P.S. Maybe I should start using eit2mei, just to support the mei2archive and CutFile TAPs. I wonder how much extra processor load is involved in running eit2mei.

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Firmware: 5.13.65 (patched). Auto Start TAPs: TapCommander 1.0.2, Power Down 0.6, DescriptionExtender 2.2, mei2archive 3.8I3, Automove 1.8, QuickJump 1.54, Improbox 2.1RC8, Jag's EPG 3.0b3 (TV & radio), Media Manager 1.5, MHEG Control A2g, Extend 1.7. PC apps: DGtoTop 1.1. Profile last updated 13/05/2009
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mike.hinson
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:55 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 1735 Location: Bordon, Hants UK
R2-D2 wrote:
It hands over everything to mei2archive, which I think is the best place for this sort of thing. mei2archive could, in theory, analyse the existing header and adjust it, but if this came from mei2archive in the first place (highly recommended!) then it ought to have the right info around to do the parts...
I have a hunch that mei2archive deletes the archive mei files after 30 days by default
(I have 30 files & have been using it for more than 30 days),
so people may wish to concider editing the mei2archive.ini file like this to keep a year's worth:

[Control]
ArchiveLimit=365

from the ReadMe.txt
"ArchiveLimit - the maximum number of days to save in MEI Archive. Setting to "0" means no limit."

Perhaps DX or R2-D2 could give some guidance on the processing overhead this might create? The files on my Toppy are about 2.5Mb each.

I must say on the basis of this I quite like the idea that mei2archive could retrieve the older historic information from the extended header rather than keep hundreds of files just in case. However I do apreciate the work done already & also that DX has been having some problems with his Toppy. Perhaps we owe him a some components. What does he need?
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DX
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:41 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Posts: 2694
tichtich wrote:
I wonder how much extra processor load is involved in running eit2mei.

Not a lot, especially if you tweak the setting to do only one scan a day.
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