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pc1962
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:35 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 23
Thanks mate,

Ive PM'ed Andy as changing the caps seems like a good idea anyway and cant do any harm, my toppy is getting on for 5 years old so regardless whether the caps are gone going or thinking about it. It may be prudent to change them regardless.

Love that Toppy.org is still here whenever there is a problem...priceless!

Thanks again

Paul
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juwlz
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:04 am Reply with quote
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... assuming your 5810 is more than TWO years old, and out of warranty.

Julie

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PeteManchester
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:59 am Reply with quote
Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 4
I'd just like to say thanks to Andy for sending out the PSU Repair kit so quickly. I've changed all the capacitors and now my shiny new Samsung 1Tb Hard disk works , over 750 hours of recording time left Smile
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pc1962
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:13 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 23
PeteManchester wrote:
I'd just like to say thanks to Andy for sending out the PSU Repair kit so quickly. I've changed all the capacitors and now my shiny new Samsung 1Tb Hard disk works , over 750 hours of recording time left Smile


+1

Caps arrived next day [today]...All changed out...happy days

Thanks Andy your a star Smile
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MikeyP
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:20 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 4818
I'm currently seeing quite a few PSU's with the 12V cap way out of spec (ESRwise) and yet the 5V one is (virtually) perfect Confused Confused

Toppy PSU's - made to make your brain water Laughing

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R2-D2
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:05 am Reply with quote
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OT a bit, but I was talking to the chap who maintains the computers at the school near me and he said the main problem they got was the PSU failing in the various machines. I asked him if it was the normal capacitor issue and he looked at me blank. Smile And I have a feeling the fact that the air conditioning doesn't work in their computer suite might have been more significant than he thought.

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MikeyP
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:03 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 4818
R2-D2 wrote:
OT a bit, but I was talking to the chap who maintains the computers at the school near me and he said the main problem they got was the PSU failing in the various machines. I asked him if it was the normal capacitor issue and he looked at me blank. Smile And I have a feeling the fact that the air conditioning doesn't work in their computer suite might have been more significant than he thought.


Laughing Laughing

the problem with computers is the PSU's fail (big time) AND the caps on themain board fail too , they're all highly stressed.

so just replacing a duff PSU doesn't always fix a PC

make that THREE toppys in a row that have had very poorly 12V line caps and yet still a good 5V cap Shocked

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quartermain
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:03 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 05 Jul 2006 Posts: 110
Thanks to andyfras for the capacitor kit. All working just fine, no more reboots, no more wavy bands on the screen and the image if anything looks brighter and sharper than before.

The job was slightly fraught since my eyesight really isn't what it used to be, plus my iron is a 35-year old Weller W60D which I "borrowed" from Uni in the mid-seventies and somehow forgot to take back. Its last job was melting holes in plastic roofing sheets for a conservatory roof replacement.

If I ever do this again I'll treat myself to a new iron first. And one of those illuminated magnifier thingies.
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mstombs
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:25 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 31 Dec 2006 Posts: 938
I've never attempted to repair a computer PSU, but its often capacitors that fail catastrophically - I've seen the burnt remains with the case blown off, so I have assumed the root cause was semi-conductor and heat? Only one computer PSU failure at home has taken all the drives and motherboard - I guess mains got onto the 12V rail, but that risk is so real I can't see anyone repairing?

As mentioned elsewhere I have used Toppy destined capacitors to repair the PSU on a Western Digital external usb drive, and also a failed NSLU2 one - very similar capacitor types and high ESR failures - and the fixes still working.

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MikeyP
Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:13 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 4818
mstombs wrote:
I've never attempted to repair a computer PSU, but its often capacitors that fail catastrophically - I've seen the burnt remains with the case blown off, so I have assumed the root cause was semi-conductor and heat? Only one computer PSU failure at home has taken all the drives and motherboard - I guess mains got onto the 12V rail, but that risk is so real I can't see anyone repairing?

As mentioned elsewhere I have used Toppy destined capacitors to repair the PSU on a Western Digital external usb drive, and also a failed NSLU2 one - very similar capacitor types and high ESR failures - and the fixes still working.


A PC PSU is very highly stressed switcher because of it's high wattage output.
Double the trouble/stress cos it has to conform to a very small (standard PC PSU formfactor) box.

They usually fail in one of two ways, semiconductor breakdown (the main chopper device)
or because various caps (again!) have deteriorated to the point where their characteristics begin to change the very operation of the hot side of the PSU. This takes some components into territories they weren't specced for..... result=failure.

You'd be hard pushed to get mains there though, Damage to the mobo would normally be with excessive ripple (again from dying caps on the cold side)

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graemeh
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:45 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 48
Hi,

I bought an old Toppy TF5800 250Gb off ebay knowing it would have problems. But as I had changed capacitors on another toppy I felt I could manage. It now looks like I have some nice spare parts for my other (working) toppys.
Initially I checked the voltage before doing anything else. The 30 v was VERY high and without even recording the values knew the caps needed changing. I changed the usual 6 and the voltages were:
28v = 30.0
22v = 24.1
17v=16.6
8v=7.5
5v=5.0
3.3v=3.2
15v=15.2
12v=12.1

So all looked ok.

I plugged it into an arial and TV and it ran up but didn't come out of Installation. Did a scan and found all channels. Was looking at the archive of programmes left on the disk and deleting some when the live TV stopped and NO SIGNAL AT TUNER 1 displayed. Swapped arial to T2 to no avail.

For some reason I then went and flashed a recommended firmware with my stuff. Still couldn't get TV and could not play recordings on disk - it came up with a message saying it was part of a merged recording.

I then replaced the other capacitors on the PSU. Voltages did not change, but still had no tuners.

Now I doubt if I am competent enough to tackle the motherboard but I believe changing Q14 transistor may help, but is it not just as likely to be the tuners themselves?

The reason I am posting is that I feel it is impertinent of the thing to break AFTER the PSU change brought the voltages back into line. Does this make sense to anyone? And is there anything a novice can do or is it now a set of spares (except the duff motherboard and tuners) for my other toppys?

Cheers,

Graeme

PS I also tried running with TF-NPT 5.13.65 with no disk - same problem.

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andyfras
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:38 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3457
If either of the tuners is working, Q14 is not the problem.

I have seen this effect on another Toppy and it was fixed by a factory reset.

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graemeh
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:00 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 48
Andy,

Neither of the tuners work. I just tried to test them independently. Is there an easy way to test Q14?

Regards,
Graeme

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andyfras
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:26 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3457
graemeh wrote:
Did a scan and found all channels.

This is what made the think that the tuners were still working after you changed the capacitors. Do you think that they died after the scan?

To test Q14, first unplug your Toppy from the mains. Using the Diode Test on your meter, put the black lead on the left hand pin of Q14 (looking from the front) and measure to the other two - you should get about 0.7. Then use the red lead on the left pin and measure to the other two - this should read infinity (open circuit). Finally measure between the right hand pin and the top pin and that should also read open circuit both ways round.

Have you tried a factory reset?

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graemeh
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:52 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 48
Thanks Andy. I'll try a test of Q14 when I can time later.

Initially the tuners worked after the 6 caps were changed usingt the firmware it came with. Tuners stopped while I was running it, and looking through archive and watching tv, after 5 minutes or so. After that they never worked even though I changed more caps and changed firmware and did many factory resets.

Cheers,

Graeme

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