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<  General Toppy discussions  ~  Stuck in main menu, best way to recover?

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philbrown
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:06 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 60
Long story. Mendip transmitter work, weak signal. Not around much but toppy still trying to make recordings with VFFs happening occasionally. Then eventually it only starts up into the main menu and cannot exit. It appears advice I can find from over 10 years ago suggests lost channels and best to do a factory reset followed by a rescan.

Before I set to to recover it any recent advice? For instance Topmanager would not have existed 10 years ago, can it help beyond rescanning? No I don't have a recent backup.

I'm presuming I'm going to have to rebuild my timers but so be it.

Thanks.

Phil

_________________
TF5800t, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; Surfer v0.14; SecCache (UK) v0.4; WSSkiller V2.12d; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; MyInfo B5.6; MyStuff 6.6; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG Control B2.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 3/10/19
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:53 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4422
Have ALL the capacitors been changed? Hardware issues typically caused by a failing psu.

I'm on mendip and haven't noticed any transmission issues.

Being locked into the system menu means that you have lost all channels and need to rescan. If you have pccontrol in autostart then you should be able to rescan with topmanager (make sure you have the latest version)

I can recover recordings on the disk (should the need arise).

NB if the capacitors haven't been changed you need to switch it off until they have been

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; PruneEPG 1.0; fsSave 1.1; QuickJump 1.72; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Bookmark 3.0; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 29/12/18
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:44 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4422
Also, don't rescan before doing the capacitors (scanning stresses the power supply - so I've been told)

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; PruneEPG 1.0; fsSave 1.1; QuickJump 1.72; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Bookmark 3.0; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 29/12/18
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philbrown
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:00 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 60
Okay. The long story.

I'm miles away from Mendip with a high gain aerial with integral amplifier on a 20ft scaffold pole, I should be using Oxford but don't feel any synergy with that region. I'm 49km from Oxford but 70km from Mendip.

Toppy is a fairly new facelift hardly used I got off of here. I checked the voltages when I got it and they were good. I was about to check the voltages again before anything else but this isn't something that has been degrading, it was a step change. Anyway -

When I first had reception issues over a week ago I got out my old toppy (which has all caps changed), same reception issues. My TV was showing some reception issues to a lesser extent but of course newer design than Toppys. I also have a Humax I got not so long ago for half price. This also shows reception issues to a lesser extent than toppy. Humax not used much - what an awful interface, menu etc. I forgo HD for using MyStuff and the toppy.

So conclusion, reception, aerial degradation. Aerial not easy to access so checked for transmitter problems. Eventually discovered buried in the digital UK site 'possible weak reception' on Mendip. It could be that if you are near enough the drop in signal level would not be enough to affect you. That notice disappeared a couple of days ago but my problems remain, sometimes the Humax only gives me sound, sometimes pauses in video, sometimes fine, presumably with channel/Mux and weather (we've had lots of that lately!). The other thing this has taught me that except for the odd programme missed catchup is a really painful way of watching TV, either via Freeview play in the Humax or using apps and chromecast.

So I'm going to try lashing up an aerial on Oxford which in old analogue days you could pick up with a piece of wet string! I'm even going to start with the aerial in the loft. Working through all the easy things before bringing down the 20ft pole and finding nothing wrong there. Perhaps they've finally killed my ability to get Mendip by all this stuff for 5G.

Toppy will get voltages checked and won't be retuned unless I've got decent reception.

So back to my original question of best advice to recover toppy when I come to it. My googling only came up with ancient posts on this subject although very difficult to get search terms right for. Back then the advice was factory reset and retune. Obviously there aren't any novice users of toppys anymore to run into weak signal problems but all this shifing of channels for 700MHz I though others might have experienced problems and there might be more informed experience of the best approach, for instance can you get away without a factory reset or does this just save up problems for the future.

Phil

_________________
TF5800t, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; Surfer v0.14; SecCache (UK) v0.4; WSSkiller V2.12d; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; MyInfo B5.6; MyStuff 6.6; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG Control B2.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 3/10/19
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:45 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4422
Can you post it's MyInfo log?

If the signal is fine I don't think you should need to reset especially as ChannelOrganiser and TopManager/PccControl do a partial reset when they scan for channels.
(Historically, one had to reset before a scan otherwise one ended up with duplicate channels i.e. the reset was only to get rid of the old channels and not because it was necessary to clear something else in the box).

Note; You should only use CO B2.1 or TM to do the scanning; don't attempt it manually.

Geoff
PS: I did update the Freeview*.dat files yesterday i.e. before rescanning, use TM Tools|Install Files to ensure you are using the latest version (and FvTxData.tsv)

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; PruneEPG 1.0; fsSave 1.1; QuickJump 1.72; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Bookmark 3.0; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 29/12/18
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philbrown
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:30 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 60
Thanks Geoff that's just the sort of info I wanted.

Here's the MyInfo log

MyInfo B5.6 Logging settings etc on: 27/9/2019 at 22:56

Waiting for other TAPs to load and settle


Says it all really! Stuck...

I was starting to think it might be my aerial, perhaps the masthead amp gone down although it is still drawing power. Anyway, I discovered that something is going to change on Mendip on the 16th. Look at the Mendip section here
http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/coveragechecker/main/trade/sn6+6ea/16/0/NA
unfortunately it doesn't show the past.

Anyway, I won't touch the toppy until I can give it a good signal, off to see if I can rig another aerial.

Ooops! Didn't wait long enough for the log. Full log below, Topmanager gave two warning messages, one about date format and the second about might not be up to date as the file is more than 237months old!

Phil

MyInfo B5.6 Logging settings at unknown time/date

Waiting for other TAPs to load and settle

Ini file found
Starting to record data 627 seconds from boot

System ID: 458
TV Output: Type = PAL, Video = RGB, RF Channel = 36
Reported firmware version: TF-NPT 5.13.65T dated Oct 10 2009
Base firmware version: 5.13.65

Running TAPS:
Slot 0: PcControl B1.4 : Toppy control from PC
Slot 1: EPG2MEI v0.96 : Dumps the EPG data to disk as EPG.mei, with changes since last time in EPG_diff.mei
Slot 2: Surfer v0.14 : Surf the other channels.
Slot 3: SecCache (UK) v0.4 : Optimal (UK) section caching to reduce the load on the Toppy
Slot 4: WSSkiller V2.12d : WSS killer
Slot 5: Font Manager 1.0d : Manage TAP Fonts
Slot 6: Extend v1.7 : Uses the Accurate Recording info to extend recordings (safely)
Slot 7: MyInfo B5.6 : Displays & records Toppy basic info
Slot 8: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6 : Provides faster, simpler and more robust EIT data collection, except when playing games
Slot 9: MHEG Control B2.1 : MHEG & Teletext control
Slot 10: PruneEPG 1.0 : Program to remove unnecessary entries from the EIT table
Slots 11 - 15 not used

Found Auto Start TAP which is no longer running: MyStuff 6.6 (Filename: MyStuff.tap)

Found 2 Auto Start TAPs with same ID: MHEG On/Off A3 (Filename: MhegOnOff.tap) & MHEG Control B2.1 (Filename: MhegControl.tap)
Only one of these can run at any one time

Installed patch list:- Ab Bf Bq Ce Ck Cp Cw Cy De Ec Ee Ef Ep Er Es F Fm Gm H He Kt Mh Nf Ot P Pc R Ra Re Rh Rp Rs S Sd Sl Sr St T2 Td Te Tf Tp Ts Vr Xp Xw Xl
Firmware 5.13.65T 14/4/2009 modified thus: +Ab+Cp+Cw+De+Fm+Ot+Re+Sl+Td+Te+Xl

Phil

_________________
TF5800t, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; Surfer v0.14; SecCache (UK) v0.4; WSSkiller V2.12d; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; MyInfo B5.6; MyStuff 6.6; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG Control B2.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 3/10/19
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:42 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4422
Hi Phil

The log file is incomplete; can you fetch/post it again?

If you have any channels configured then please enusre an aerial is plugged in (this will set the time on the clock).

At some point, yoy want to remove one, or both of MhegOnOff.tap and MhegControl.tap from \ProgramFiles\Auto Start

Water in the aerial down lead?

Cheers
Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; PruneEPG 1.0; fsSave 1.1; QuickJump 1.72; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Bookmark 3.0; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 29/12/18
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:37 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4422
Ignore that request for another MyInfo Log; I asked for it because the file was incomplete.

On reflection, this is probably because MyInfo didn't finish because it is waiting to detect channels. It would also perhaps explain why MyStuff is not running (there are no channels)

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; PruneEPG 1.0; fsSave 1.1; QuickJump 1.72; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Bookmark 3.0; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 29/12/18
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philbrown
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:28 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 60
Okay.

Up and running. After a lot of testing I found my distribution amplifier has failed.

Currently running with aerial direct to toppy and loopthrough from tuner 1 to tuner 2.
Rescanned with TopManager. Signal levels with TopManager show roughly 90% across all muxes both tuners, 100% quality across all.

So bit of checking and tidying-

Had to restart to get MyStuff running. Tools\Check Mystuff showed no problems.

Tools/Analyze \ProgramFiles\...

MhegOnOff.tap removed from Autostart as suggested.

I seem to have ChannelOrganiser.tap B1.2 in ProgramFiles and ChanelOrganiser.tap B2.1 in ProgramFiles\Utilities. I assume I should delete the latter?

I have warning for huge file size -
Size=13934291 \ProgramFiles\Auto Start\Extend.log
Should I do anything about this and if so what?

I’d appreciate advice on what to do about the following (sorry about the format, best I could get from that window in TM)

Duplicates SignalMonitor
Green \ProgramFiles\Settings\Firmware.dat
Grey \ProgramFiles\Settings\Freeview.dat
Duplicates \ProgramFiles\SignalMonitor5-2.tap
Duplicates \ProgramFiles\Utilities\SignalMonitor.tap
Grey SingleFileTaps
Green Skins
Duplicates TapCommander
Grey \ProgramFiles\Settings\TAPCommander.ini
Duplicates \ProgramFiles\TAPCommander1-34.tap
Duplicates \ProgramFiles\Utilities\TAPCommander.tap
Green TF5000Display
Exclamation Unrecognised Files
NoFolder Unrecognised Folder - \ProgramFiles\Auto Start\UK TAP Project\
NoFolder \ProgramFiles\Auto Start\UK TAP Project
Grey \ProgramFiles\Auto Start\UK TAP Project\logo.dat
Grey \ProgramFiles\Auto Start\UK TAP Project\smlogo.dat
NoFolder Unrecognised Folder - \ProgramFiles\MEI Archive\
NoFolder Unrecognised Folder - \ProgramFiles\Settings\MyStuff\CTs\
NoFolder Unrecognised Folder - \ProgramFiles\Settings\MyStuff\MEIs\
Green WSSkiller

Signal monitor I think I will just remove completely as it wouldn’t run when I first started investigating the ‘reception’ problem and TM can do this.

TAPCommander.tap seems to have the same duplication, which folder is correct to use?

The UK TAP Project stuff supports the Surfer0-14.tap which I use often, not sure if this is tidy but it works.

What about those unrecognised folders at the bottom of the list?

Signature updated but it said there were no changes. Latest MyInfo Log below. Any other comments?

Phil

MyInfo B5.6 Logging settings etc on: 3/10/2019 at 12:34

Waiting for other TAPs to load and settle

Ini file found
Starting to record data 63 seconds from boot

System ID: 458
TV Output: Type = PAL, Video = RGB, RF Channel = 36
Reported firmware version: TF-NPT 5.13.65T dated Oct 10 2009
Base firmware version: 5.13.65

Running TAPS:
Slot 0: PcControl B1.4 : Toppy control from PC
Slot 1: EPG2MEI v0.96 : Dumps the EPG data to disk as EPG.mei, with changes since last time in EPG_diff.mei
Slot 2: Surfer v0.14 : Surf the other channels.
Slot 3: SecCache (UK) v0.4 : Optimal (UK) section caching to reduce the load on the Toppy
Slot 4: WSSkiller V2.12d : WSS killer
Slot 5: Font Manager 1.0d : Manage TAP Fonts
Slot 6: Extend v1.7 : Uses the Accurate Recording info to extend recordings (safely)
Slot 7: MyInfo B5.6 : Displays & records Toppy basic info
Slot 8: MyStuff 6.6 : UI Replacement
Slot 9: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6 : Provides faster, simpler and more robust EIT data collection, except when playing games
Slot 10: MHEG Control B2.1 : MHEG & Teletext control
Slot 11: PruneEPG 1.0 : Program to remove unnecessary entries from the EIT table
Slots 12 - 15 not used


Installed patch list:- Ab Bf Bq Ce Ck Cp Cw Cy De Ec Ee Ef Ep Er Es F Fm Gm H He Kt Mh Nf Ot P Pc R Ra Re Rh Rp Rs S Sd Sl Sr St T2 Td Te Tf Tp Ts Vr Xp Xw Xl
Firmware MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 modified thus:
Patch Decode Link - Will explain your patches:
http://www.toppy.org.uk/~simonc/dp.html?p=AbBfBqCeCkCpCwCyDeEcEeEfEpErEsFFmGmHHeKtMhNfOtPPcRRaReRhRpRsSSdSlSrStT2TdTeTfTpTsVrXpXwXl

Time Mode set to Auto
Time Offset set to Auto

Found 70 TV channels and 32 Radio channels
No channel problems detected
LCNs of programme channels found on Tx Ch 32 are: 1, 2, 9, 201, 202, 231, 232, 250, 601, 700, 701, 702, 703, 704, 705, 706, 707, 708, 709, 710, 719, 721, 722, 726, 735,
LCNs of programme channels found on Tx Ch 33 are: 11, 17, 19, 28, 32, 38, 41, 46, 76, 84, 89, 233, 673, 678, 723, 730, 731, 732,
LCNs of programme channels found on Tx Ch 34 are: 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 13, 14, 15, 18, 24, 33, 45,
LCNs of programme channels found on Tx Ch 36 are: 25, 29, 31, 37, 39, 42, 47, 71, 79, 81, 206, 234, 235, 672, 674, 711, 712, 713, 714, 715, 716, 717, 718, 725,
LCNs of programme channels found on Tx Ch 48 are: 12, 16, 20, 21, 27, 30, 34, 40, 44, 54, 55, 63, 66, 70, 77, 80, 203, 675, 679, 680, 724, 727, 728,

Interactive Off
Timeshift On

Memory - Free: 10 MB, Available: 9 MB
Disk - Total: 233 GB, Free: 12 GB

106 recordings (122 GB) + 103 deleted (96 GB) in 2 folders (+ 0 empty folders)

Time since boot: 0:0:1 (d:h:m)

Suggested signature for Toppy forum - copy following lines to signature block at http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/profile.php?mode=editprofile
TF5800t, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; Surfer v0.14; SecCache (UK) v0.4; WSSkiller V2.12d; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; MyInfo B5.6; MyStuff 6.6; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG Control B2.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 3/10/19

_________________
TF5800t, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; Surfer v0.14; SecCache (UK) v0.4; WSSkiller V2.12d; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; MyInfo B5.6; MyStuff 6.6; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG Control B2.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 3/10/19
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:16 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4422
Looks like you are getting there.

You should delete the "ChannelOrganiser.tap B1.2 in ProgramFiles" - it won't work with the current Freeview.dat files anyway.

TM (i.e. TopManager) Display Extend.log (I think) gives you an option to delete this file; it will be recreated by Extend.tap (it is really only a debugging aid)

It doesn't really matter that you have duplicate taps - TM is just showing that you could clean up if you wanted to. Generally, you should keep the ones in \ProgramFiles\Utilities

You can delete
ProgramFiles\MEI Archive\
\ProgramFiles\Settings\MyStuff\CTs\
\ProgramFiles\Settings\MyStuff\MEIs\

Leave the UK Tap Project alone (assuming Surfer uses it)

You have a lot of channels; might be worth using TM PcControl| Channel Management to delete any you really don't want e.g. 670-699 are porn

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; PruneEPG 1.0; fsSave 1.1; QuickJump 1.72; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Bookmark 3.0; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 29/12/18
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philbrown
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:44 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 60
Thanks Geoff. And thanks for TM.

I've had a cleanup. Will let the whole thing settle down now and see if any problems occur.

Now for the physical tidyup of aerials and wiring and need to fix or replace the distribution amp.

Phil

_________________
TF5800t, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; Surfer v0.14; SecCache (UK) v0.4; WSSkiller V2.12d; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; MyInfo B5.6; MyStuff 6.6; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG Control B2.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 3/10/19
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