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MacC
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:32 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 76
Hi

I have followed the procedure for upgrading HDD, up to a point.

1 I connected to toppy withTM and made snapshot.

2. Installed new drive in toppy and formatted.

3. Connected both drives to my PC using PATA SATA convertor with new drive and transferred all recordings (~140GB) using topfHDRW.

4. Installed new 80 wire IDE cable and reverse fitted after drilling out blank for main board connection together with SATA PATA convertor.

5. Switched toppy on, topfield functions available were guide ( with no content) and Menu giving access to System Settings etc (recording option greyed out).
Also under System Settings (Format hDD greyed out).

Also not available Archive function.

6. Opened up TM but cannot connect to toppy, I have tried using different usb ports, a different usb connecting cable, shutting down both Toppy and laptop to try and establish a connection but no joy.

Message states trying different dlls for XP, Vista etc and that no other program such as Altair detected, which is correct I haven't got any other programs open.

So at this point in time I cannot reinstate the snapshot as I cannot make a connection to the toppy.

Any thoughts much appreciated.
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:57 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4357
You have a problem with the disk connection

Evidence for this - the native "Archive" and "Format HDD" being "greyed out"
This means that the toppy hasn't detected the disk.
When TM starts, for safety, it checks that the toppy disk has a ProgramFiles and/or a DataFiles folder; no disk means that it will close the connection cos there is nothing it can do.

Check you remembered to reverse fit the cable and/or reseat the cable

Geoff


Last edited by Geoff Bacon on Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; PruneEPG 1.0; fsSave 1.1; QuickJump 1.72; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Bookmark 3.0; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
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ccs
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:00 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 2565
It can't be far off if the reformat worked 1st time round.

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TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.6;
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MacC
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:18 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 76
Yes I reversed the plugs and have made sure they were seated property, same problem.

However on the initial format I expected it to be finished in seconds ( as per one of Geoffs previous comments) however it seemed to be stuck. The topfield dialogue box stated something like format progressing, (not format complete) this message stayed visable for about 30 mins. Then the toppy shutdown of its own accord.

After connecting to the PC I could see the drive in topfHDRW so I assumed it had formatted OK.

Is there a possibility that it has partly formatted, enough to be visible to topfHDRW but not fully functional.

Can I try to reformat bearing in mind the option is not available on the toppy itself now.
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ccs
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:27 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 2565
You could try formatting using TopfHDRW and then reformat it again in the toppy.

Until you can see the drive on the toppy, you're wasting your time copying files.

Maybe.....

IanL wrote:
TF5800 + remote in perfect working order. All caps changed from Andy Fraser and I'm leaving much nerdy stuff on the HD..... even Wagner's ring cycle from the BBC!

Glossop/Manchester area - Please collect or arrange courier and it's yours.

(Sticky covering on front panel cleaned off and only mechanical defect is the plastic cover over mem card slot needs selotape to keep shut!)


https://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=272866#272866

I'm not sure which menu options are available until you've done a scan for channels, maybe that needs looking into.

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TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.6;
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:02 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4357
Doesn't sound as though your initial format worked - it is quick because it writes less than 6 (say) clusters out of about 132000 (unlike an old style floppy disk where it would need to write timing information to each sector of the disk)

Your numbered list (assuming it was in the correct order) indicated that you formatted the disk in the toppy before you modified the 80 way cable. I ignored this because I didn't believe it would work if you hadn't changed the cable first.
Also some 80 cables have 3 plugs on them, I think you need to keep the cable as short as possible i.e. if this applies, use an end one and the one in the middle (you might need to cut off the unused end).
I don't really understand the electrics; perhaps ask andyfras if he can provide a suitable cable.

Reattach the new disk to the pc and check it still seems to be working (TopfHDRW) - just in case it is a bad disk

If the disk is ok, run TopfHDDoctor on it, this might detect something wrong with the file system structures but, even if it does, your real problem is that the toppy is not detecting the disk (i.e a problem with the connection).

Note: when the new disk is connected in the toppy, the Format HDD option should not be greyed out. Even if you "badly formatted" the disk previously, the toppy should see the disk and allow you to format it.

Sudden thought: Not all adapters work properly in a toppy. Suggest check with andyfras whether he knows if your's should work. If not, he used to have suitable ones at a reasonable cost.

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; PruneEPG 1.0; fsSave 1.1; QuickJump 1.72; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Bookmark 3.0; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
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MacC
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:07 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 76
Hi

Thanks for the suggestions, I won't be able to do anything for at least a week now.

So I'll update after then.
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MacC
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:03 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 76
Hi Geoff

After a couple of weeks break I am now back on the case.

1. I have connected to topfHDRW disk shows up fine and also run TopfHDDoctor for results below

Info: TopfHDDoctor V0.21.8
Info: Testing PhysicalDrive1 (ST2000DM001-1CH164)
Info: Test started @ 2019-02-23 12:53:36
Info: Sectors per Cluster: Superblock: 29892, Backup Superblock: 29892, Calc: 29892, Size: 1863.01 GB
OK: Superblock - Parameter area
OK: Superblock - Backup Parameter area
Fixed: Superblock - Root Directory copied from cluster 0
OK: Cluster 0 - Root Directory
OK: Subdirectory Scan
OK: FAT
Fixed: Files - File '\DataFiles\Pubs Ponds and Power The Story of the Village-2.rec' is shorter than expected: changed size from 832.69 MB to 831.96 MB
Fixed: Files - File '\DataFiles\S\Roxy Music A Musical History_181207.rec' is shorter than expected: changed size from 1.82 GB to 1.82 GB
Fixed: Files - File '\DataFiles\M\Click-2(CUT)_151225.rec' is shorter than expected: changed size from 73.99 MB to 72.98 MB
Fixed: Files - File '\DataFiles\M\Recovered_1209131425-16.rec' is shorter than expected: changed size from 29.83 MB to 29.19 MB
Fixed: Files - File '\DataFiles\M\New The Gadget Show(CUT)_140409.rec' is shorter than expected: changed size from 58.47 MB to 58.38 MB
Fixed: Files - File '\DataFiles\M\Music\JOHNNY CASH.rec' is shorter than expected: changed size from 88.31 MB to 87.57 MB
Fixed: Files - File '\DataFiles\M\Tommys Ultimate Workshop\Tommys Ultimate Workshop_140817.rec' is shorter than expected: changed size from 1.10 GB to 1.10 GB
Fixed: Files - File '\DataFiles\M\Car Mechs\VW THING BRAKE DISC CONV.rec' is shorter than expected: changed size from 58.47 MB to 58.38 MB
Fixed: Files - File '\DataFiles\M\Car Mechs\XJ C IGNITION_181230.rec' is shorter than expected: changed size from 58.47 MB to 58.38 MB
Fixed: Files - File '\DataFiles\M\Car Mechs\XJ C WATER PUMP_181230.rec' is shorter than expected: changed size from 73.99 MB to 72.98 MB
Fixed: Files - File '\DataFiles\M\Car Mechs\SPITFIRE REPLACE DIFF.rec' is shorter than expected: changed size from 88.31 MB to 87.57 MB
Fixed: Files - File '\DataFiles\M\Car Mechs\Z1 INDICATOR STALK_190107.rec' is shorter than expected: changed size from 29.83 MB to 29.19 MB
Fixed: Files - File '\DataFiles\M\Car Mechs\CAT 7 FLOOR PAN_190121.rec' is shorter than expected: changed size from 58.47 MB to 58.38 MB
Fixed: Files - File '\DataFiles\M\CL\Wifi Drives\WIFI DRIVES_120913.rec' is shorter than expected: changed size from 44.15 MB to 43.79 MB
Fixed: Files - File '\DataFiles\Recipies\NAN & ALOO GOHBI.rec' is shorter than expected: changed size from 205.26 MB to 204.34 MB
Fixed: Files - File '\DataFiles\Recipies\RACHEL ALLEN 2.rec' is shorter than expected: changed size from 44.15 MB to 43.79 MB
Fixed: Files - File '\DataFiles\Recipies\CANAPES 3.rec' is shorter than expected: changed size from 88.31 MB to 87.57 MB
Info: Test finished @ 2019-02-23 12:56:29
================================================================================
Info: Cluster size = 14.60 MB
Info: Used: 273 files; 31 directories; 9839 clusters; 140.2 GB; 7.5%
Info: Free: 120865 clusters; 1.7 TB
================================================================================

Select "File - Write changes to the disk" to make the modifications permanent.

2. I have reinstalled the hard drive in the toppy using the shorter cable run. However I still get the same issue " Format Hard Disk" greyed out on topfield Installation menu.

3. From your paragraph two re my numbered list, are you suggesting that I should have initially formatted with the 80 wire cable installed and that I should try to format again now, with the 80 wire cable installed ?

Best regards
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MacC
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:53 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 76
Hi

Edit to previous post.

I had drauhgted the previous post and then added in point 2. Not realising that it in fact negated point 3.as I cannot format in the toppy !

When I powered down the toppy I did not hear any disc activity so this probably indicates as Geoff had previously suggested a problem with the PATA SATA converter

So my next option is to try to get a working PATA SATA converter. Andy do you have any of these or can you suggest a source.

Cheers
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ccs
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:53 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 2565
Not all adapters work - which one are you using?

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TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.6;
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andyfras
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:53 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3449
It's important to connect the 80-wire cable 'backwards'. This means that the end that would normally go to the mainboard should go to the adapter and vice-versa. This is due to the way that intermediate wires are earthed (no connection on mainboard).

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MacC
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:57 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 76
Hi the adaptor doesn't have a clear brand. From what I can see the logo is similar R🍎HS and it's made in China.

I have a cable with blue grey black connectors, the grey and black are closer together, so I presumed the blue is to the mother board, this is what I had connected to the converter and the black I drilled to connect to the main board. Since then I have tried by using the shorter length ie sticking with black to the main board and grey to the converter. My cable has one red wire this has always ended up being positioned closest to the power connector on the converter and closer to the back panel on the toppy main board (as per the original cables red wire)
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andyfras
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:47 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3449
I always cut off the black connector (scissors are ideal), then connect black to the mainboard and blue to the adapter. Only the blue connector picks up the earth screen, so using the short length between black and grey will not work.

_________________
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.6 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver : Prune EPG
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 320GB 2.5", Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScUUuWfZ
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MacC
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:18 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 76
Hi Andy

I presume in my caae you mean I should use the blue and grey connectors.

I'll try that tomorrow.

Thanks for now.
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MacC
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:24 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 76
Hi

I have tried with the other connector arrangement. i.e. Blue to SATA PATA and Grey to main board but I get the same problem, Format Hard Drive greyed out.

I then tried with the original cable and although it's too short, managed to balanced the new HDD so I could test, again Format Hard Drive greyed out.

So I now have to conclude that my SATA PATA convertor board is the problem.

Anyone know where I can get a convertor which is likely to work.
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