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<  General Toppy discussions  ~  Another hard drive packed in. Could Geoff please help?

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Grand Dizzy
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:22 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 09 Oct 2009 Posts: 144
Since my last HD broke (not too long ago) I'd been using an old, but good HD. But this one has now packed in (following a few days of bad aerial reception, plus me trying to tune about 75 channels at once which I now realise was a mistake).

The Toppy barely recognises the drive, and when I hook it up to my PC with TopfHDRW, it recognises it, but it hangs on loading.

I'm wondering if Super Geoff could please come to the rescue again as he has done in the past and get my data off onto another drive?

There's only about 200 gig of data on there at the moment and I was planning on replacing it with a cheap second-hand 512Gb or 1Tb drive (PATA or SATA, either is fine). But it would save time if Geoff has a spare drive knocking about (of any size) and could quote me for it?

Before anyone says "buy a new drive", I can't as money's really tight at the moment.
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ccs
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:43 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 2481
Bad reception can easily corrupt an hd, but it won't physically damage it, not that I'm aware of, anyway.

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TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -FmXl+CtEzIScVdZ
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.6;
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ccsx
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Grand Dizzy
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:18 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 09 Oct 2009 Posts: 144
ccs wrote:
Bad reception can easily corrupt an hd, but it won't physically damage it, not that I'm aware of, anyway.

That's good to know, though I still may have damaged the drive, due to forcing the machine off at the power several times when it stopped responding. I'm sure that can be damaging to any hard drive.

I'd use TopManager to check the disc's health but it doesn't recognise the disc any more (TopfHDRW recognises the disc but it hangs when loading).

Hopefully then I don't need a new drive, just for Geoff to get my data off, wipe it, and put it back on. I'd be happy to send it off to him with the usual fee but will let him confirm before I do that.
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:30 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4174
I don't carry a stock of disks (in fact I only have my test spare) so can't provide a replacement.

However, if the disk is just corrupted then it doesn't need to be replaced.

Suggest you send it to me and I can whether the files can be recover insitu or whether the drive needs replacement.

As ccs says, poor reception can corrupt a disk so, if you are lucky, only the directory structures will need to be rebuilt. Note: To prevent problems, you should only be tuning using the TopManager/PcControl interface or the ChannelOrganiser tap; these limit the search to muxes that you receive ( If you used a native scan, there is a possibility that a channel on an different mux caused the corruption before you managed to delete the unwanted channels).

Geoff
ps Just reread your post and see that TopfHDRW hangs on loading. Suggest you load the GSmartControl program (about half way down the page) on your pc and see what it reports on it's summary page and on it's SMART page (anything really bad will be in red).

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TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
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Grand Dizzy
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:28 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 09 Oct 2009 Posts: 144
Thanks once again Geoff!

I only ever use Channel Organiser to tune, nothing else.

As you kindly suggested, I downloaded and ran GSmartControl. There wasn't anything in red except for one warning which doesn't sound too serious (full log posted below) so I'm guessing the drive is basically OK.

Unless you say otherwise, I will send it to you for data recovery with the usual small fee. (I presume your address is still the same one, ending 7HB?) Thank you! Smile

Here are the log results. It all seems like gibberish to me but I'm sure it won't to you:

Quote:

smartctl 6.6 2017-11-05 r4594 [x86_64-w64-mingw32-win7-sp1] (sf-6.6-1)
Copyright (C) 2002-17, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: SAMSUNG SpinPoint P120
Device Model: SAMSUNG SP2514N
Serial Number: S08DJ10YB02823
Firmware Version: VF100-33
User Capacity: 250,059,350,016 bytes [250 GB]
Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13/1532D revision 4a
Local Time is: Sat Dec 08 20:08:30 2018 GMTST

==> WARNING: May need -F samsung3 enabled; see manual for details.

SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
Enabled status cached by OS, trying SMART RETURN STATUS cmd.
SMART support is: Enabled
AAM feature is: Disabled
APM feature is: Unavailable
Rd look-ahead is: Enabled
Write cache is: Enabled
DSN feature is: Unavailable
ATA Security is: Disabled, NOT FROZEN [SEC1]

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status: (0x82) Offline data collection activity
was completed without error.
Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed
without error or no self-test has ever
been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection: ( 4868) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
Suspend Offline collection upon new
command.
Offline surface scan supported.
Self-test supported.
No Conveyance Self-test supported.
Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
power-saving mode.
Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 1) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 81) minutes.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAGS VALUE WORST THRESH FAIL RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate POSR-- 253 100 051 - 0
3 Spin_Up_Time POS--- 100 100 025 - 5824
4 Start_Stop_Count -O--CK 098 098 000 - 2826
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct PO--CK 253 253 010 - 0
7 Seek_Error_Rate POSR-- 253 253 051 - 0
8 Seek_Time_Performance P-S--K 253 253 015 - 0
9 Power_On_Hours -O--CK 100 100 000 - 36771
10 Spin_Retry_Count PO--CK 253 253 051 - 0
11 Calibration_Retry_Count -O--C- 253 002 000 - 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count -O--CK 100 100 000 - 468
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel -O---K 172 103 000 - 22
194 Temperature_Celsius -O---K 172 103 000 - 22
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered -O-RC- 100 100 000 - 920
196 Reallocated_Event_Count -O--CK 253 253 000 - 0
197 Current_Pending_Sector -O--C- 093 093 000 - 69
198 Offline_Uncorrectable ----CK 253 253 000 - 0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count -OSRCK 200 200 000 - 0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate -O-R-- 253 100 000 - 0
201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate -O-R-- 253 100 000 - 0
||||||_ K auto-keep
|||||__ C event count
||||___ R error rate
|||____ S speed/performance
||_____ O updated online
|______ P prefailure warning

ATA_READ_LOG_EXT (addr=0x00:0x00, page=0, n=1) failed: Function not implemented
Read GP Log Directory failed

SMART Log Directory Version 1 [multi-sector log support]
Address Access R/W Size Description
0x00 SL R/O 1 Log Directory
0x01 SL R/O 1 Summary SMART error log
0x02 SL R/O 2 Comprehensive SMART error log
0x06 SL R/O 1 SMART self-test log
0x80-0x9f SL R/W 16 Host vendor specific log

SMART Extended Comprehensive Error Log (GP Log 0x03) not supported

SMART Error Log Version: 1
ATA Error Count: 5311 (device log contains only the most recent five errors)
CR = Command Register [HEX]
FR = Features Register [HEX]
SC = Sector Count Register [HEX]
SN = Sector Number Register [HEX]
CL = Cylinder Low Register [HEX]
CH = Cylinder High Register [HEX]
DH = Device/Head Register [HEX]
DC = Device Command Register [HEX]
ER = Error register [HEX]
ST = Status register [HEX]
Powered_Up_Time is measured from power on, and printed as
DDd+hh:mm:SS.sss where DD=days, hh=hours, mm=minutes,
SS=sec, and sss=millisec. It "wraps" after 49.710 days.

Error 5311 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 36770 hours (1532 days + 2 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was doing SMART Offline or Self-test.

After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
84 51 f0 c0 5d a1 ee Error: ICRC, ABRT 240 sectors at LBA = 0x0ea15dc0 = 245456320

Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 f0 c0 5d a1 ee 00 02:47:25.313 READ DMA
c8 00 00 c0 5c a1 ee 00 02:47:25.313 READ DMA
c8 00 00 c0 5b a1 ee 00 02:47:25.313 READ DMA
e5 00 00 38 58 a1 a0 00 02:47:25.313 CHECK POWER MODE
c8 00 01 38 58 a1 ee 00 02:47:24.313 READ DMA

Error 5310 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 36768 hours (1532 days + 0 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was doing SMART Offline or Self-test.

After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
84 51 00 b0 34 a3 ee Error: ICRC, ABRT at LBA = 0x0ea334b0 = 245576880

Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 00 b0 34 a3 ee 00 01:08:38.563 READ DMA
e5 00 00 48 9e a2 a0 00 01:08:38.563 CHECK POWER MODE
c8 00 01 48 9e a2 ee 00 01:08:37.750 READ DMA
e5 00 00 47 9e a2 a0 00 01:08:37.750 CHECK POWER MODE
c8 00 24 24 9e a2 ee 00 01:08:37.750 READ DMA

Error 5309 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 36767 hours (1531 days + 23 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was doing SMART Offline or Self-test.

After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
84 51 5d 8c a9 f6 e5 Error: ICRC, ABRT 93 sectors at LBA = 0x05f6a98c = 100051340

Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 5d 8c a9 f6 e5 00 00:24:07.500 READ DMA
e5 00 00 8b a9 f6 a0 00 00:24:07.500 CHECK POWER MODE
c8 00 01 8b a9 f6 e5 00 00:24:07.500 READ DMA
e5 00 00 2b 38 47 a0 00 00:24:07.500 CHECK POWER MODE
c8 00 01 8b a9 f6 e5 00 00:24:06.875 READ DMA

Error 5308 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 36767 hours (1531 days + 23 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was doing SMART Offline or Self-test.

After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
84 51 00 b0 a8 f6 e5 Error: ICRC, ABRT at LBA = 0x05f6a8b0 = 100051120

Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 00 b0 a8 f6 e5 00 00:16:04.938 READ DMA
c8 00 00 b0 a7 f6 e5 00 00:16:04.875 READ DMA
c8 00 00 b0 a6 f6 e5 00 00:16:04.875 READ DMA
c8 00 00 b0 a5 f6 e5 00 00:16:04.875 READ DMA
c8 00 00 b0 a4 f6 e5 00 00:16:04.813 READ DMA

Error 5307 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 36767 hours (1531 days + 23 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was doing SMART Offline or Self-test.

After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
84 51 00 b0 a8 f6 e5 Error: ICRC, ABRT at LBA = 0x05f6a8b0 = 100051120

Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 00 b0 a8 f6 e5 00 00:16:02.875 READ DMA
c8 00 00 b0 a7 f6 e5 00 00:16:02.813 READ DMA
c8 00 00 b0 a6 f6 e5 00 00:16:02.813 READ DMA
c8 00 00 b0 a5 f6 e5 00 00:16:02.750 READ DMA
c8 00 00 b0 a4 f6 e5 00 00:16:02.750 READ DMA

SMART Extended Self-test Log (GP Log 0x07) not supported

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
No self-tests have been logged. [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t]

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 0
Note: revision number not 1 implies that no selective self-test has ever been run
SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
1 0 0 Not_testing
2 0 0 Not_testing
3 0 0 Not_testing
4 0 0 Not_testing
5 0 0 Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

SCT Commands not supported

Device Statistics (GP/SMART Log 0x04) not supported

SATA Phy Event Counters (GP Log 0x11) not supported
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:34 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4174
@Grand Dizzy

"197 Current_Pending_Sector -O--C- 093 093 000 - 69 " indicates that there are 69 sectors on the disk that the drive is having trouble reading. Apart from that, I can't see anything obviously wrong with it's hardware condition (not easy to check properly as the log has lost all it's formatting).

Although you have these suspect sectors, this is not too bad in that the drive hasn't thought them bad enough to map to good spare sectors ( this is automatic and the mapping is transparent to the toppy). Reading these sectors may be slower than reading a good sector (if the drive has to retry the read several times) but they could disappear when the sectors are rewritten i.e. they may never get mapped to other sectors if their contents are overwritten and, if they are in an existing file(s), they won't even become candidates for remapping until the file that contains them is deleted.

So to summarise
1) It looks like the drive does not need replacing
2) The software structures have been corrupted and
3) I should therefore be able to recover the files

Please send the disk/payment as before; you obviously have the correct address details.

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
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albertd
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:57 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 01 Jul 2010 Posts: 562
May I suggest that you make a serious effort to get a usable signal. If you use the Signal Monitor TAP or the similar facility in Top Manager, you should strive to have a quality value no lower than 99% on every Mux or you will be risking this problem happening repeatedly. It is a known shortcoming with Toppies.

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Now toppyless due to problems with my beloved TF5800. 2/4/2018
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Grand Dizzy
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:09 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 09 Oct 2009 Posts: 144
Thank you and bless you Geoff! Smile

Thanks Albert too! That's a useful tip. I didn't realise it had to be at least 99% signal quality. It is often much lower, and I think one is currently about 65% but I haven't had any obvious signal breakup that I've noticed.

Though over the last couple of days, a couple of the muxes disappeared completely, with nothing at all on half the channels, which is why it started crashing. Perhaps it was the bad weather we've been having? Though the aerial is in the loft so not sure about that.

Part of my problem is that I move house a lot and many of the aerials I end up with just aren't very good! We always try to quickly change channel if ever we see "blobbing" (that's what our family calls signal breakup artefacts).
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andyfras
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:42 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3427
My signal is marginal, and I find that it's worthwhile giving each aerial connection a reseat from time to time, or if I start to see some break-up.

Please note that it's only important to have high 90's signal QUALITY; signal strength should ideally be somewhat less than 100% to prevent swamping of tuners.

_________________
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.6 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver : Prune EPG
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 320GB 2.5", Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScUUuWfZ
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4174
Other things you could try:
1) Delete all channels on a mux that always has poor reception. This prevents accidentally selecting a channel which might cause a wipe. Obviously, this is not an option if you want to watch any of the channels on the mux.

2) Try turning off Time Shifting. When this is enabled, the toppy is effectively continuously recording i.e. writing to the disk all the time. Disabling should mean fewer writes to the disk e.g. only when actually recording programs or EPG2MEI is updating the EPG files.
(Corruption occurs when the disk is written to so I'm assuming that fewer writes reduces the likelyhood of corruption - this assumption may not be valid!).

3) Don't retune more than you have to and especially not when you think the signal quality is bad (I hardly ever retune my box as I'm not really interested in the new channels that pop up now and again). When testing my programs a few years ago, I found that retuning in the evening was more successful than during the day (perhaps they reduce the power during the day?)

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
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Grand Dizzy
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:39 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 09 Oct 2009 Posts: 144
Thanks again Geoff, those are great tips, especially #2 and #3 (not too keen on the first one!). Tip 3 is very relevant: I'd been re-scanning the channels the other day when the signal was poor/down so that's probably what got me into this mess.

Geoff, I may not need to send you the drive after all…

I tried again to load the drive in TofpHDRW and after a long time it successfully loaded. I got a pop-up warning that one folder contained a corrupt cluster, so I just deleted that folder.

I'm currently copying (not moving) the files to my PC. It's slow and has timed out a couple of times (as TopfHDRW often does with long copy sessions) but if I can get most of the recordings off, I'll be happy.

Once the recordings are copied over, I'm wondering what might be the best way to proceed? I could just format the drive, install everything afresh, and copy the recordings back. But I lose my recording history this way.

Ideally I'd just take a snapshot with Top Manager, format the drive, then copy back the snapshot, but last time I tried connecting with Top Manager it didn't recognise the drive (and I don't have any old snapshots on my PC). Perhaps Top Manager might stand a better chance of connecting if I deleted all the recordings from the machine?
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YorkshireJumbo
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:31 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 726
I'm fairly sure that the Toppy won't show anything with a signal quality of 65%. Signal strength is relatively unimportant as long as the quality is high enough.

_________________
YJ - You may have speed, but I have momentum
Black Panther since Sep '05, Caps replaced July '10, WD10EZRX and Turbosat adaptor added May '16
F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+U+Uu
TAPs: MS 6.6 Suite, UK OZ Surfer
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:30 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4174
TopfHDRW drops out when the windows screen saver kicks so make sure it has a long period before it activates e.g. 4+ hours.
Also disable power saving on the USB port/hub the toppy is connected to (otherwise Windows turns it off even though it is doing operations)
On XP systems, I don't think the screen saver would kick in if one positioned it over the program start menus (not sure if this applies to later versions)

Having copied off the recordings, try TopfDoctor to analyze/repair the structures. (it works in read only mode until you "write changes")

Please note that I did install fsSave on your disk last time so I can identify where all the files were (assuming not physically overwritten) i.e. I can recover the recording info if necessary but you would need to send me the disk (and obviously noy have copied anything back to it).

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
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