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ccs
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:35 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 2481
YorkshireJumbo wrote:
So you're saying it's a simple solution that can easily be setup and used by my granny, and that upgrades don't cause problems. That's not what people have written on here :wink:
Believe whatever you want to believe, they're not that difficult to set up.

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TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -FmXl+CtEzIScVdZ
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.6;
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ccsx
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TopTapper
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:17 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 225
ccs wrote:
Laser wrote:
ccs wrote:
Enigma2/ViX

it sounds like a cumbersome and strictly-for-techies solution that kind of covers the desired functionality, but not really. And can be a bit buggy.
...that couldn't be further from the truth.

It sounds about right from my perspective (Vu+Duo2 + OpenViX, terrestrial-only). I think it would be a nightmare to set-up for the tech-averse and day-to-day usage is nothing like as straightforward as patched Toppy+MyStuff. It's a complicated beast at all levels and support is likely hit-and-miss compared to here. There's a host of video tutorials and, it may be my age, but I find them tortuous to the extent that I'd rather be in a state of guessing and not-knowing Wink -- so maybe I'm not best placed to talk about ease of set-up & support.

I've only seen the box crash a few times but I think that was mostly associated with bad guesses on the initial set-up. There are glitches (e.g., front panel display has an annoying dim backlight on one screen when in playback) and many potentially confusing options (e.g., changing channels when timeshifting with current recordings in progress -- it's not always clear whether you're going to lose your recording, the timeshift buffer or both). I've slowly found my around the interface but I still find basic tasks painful via remote (create a folder, move a recording to it). My better half doesn't even try to use it because it's nearly instantly frustrating and "the last box was better". Wink Despite this, I still think it's a good box; it's powerful and does a lot the Toppy couldn't. The developers are putting in a huge and fantastic effort and it works well in many ways. There's a big learning curve, especially on set-up - your average punter would probably be horrified - and day-to-day use isn't super user-friendly. However, like anything, you can get used to it and the familiar is easy.

Despite these comments I'm happy with the solution -- it does what I want and more. My only real regret is that my better half hasn't taken to it. Still, I suppose that means we get more car chases and less Strictly. (I'm loving 'The Sweeney' at the moment and this year's BBC dramas have been outstanding).
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simonc
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:58 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 5639 Location: Cheltenham
The Toppy+MyStuff won't be bettered for a while, but for flexibility, the Enigma boxes definitely have it. The main issues I have with it at the moment are
  • a sluggish grid EPG screen
  • subtitles are laughably badly timed
  • many screens are modal, so for example you have to exit the EPG to get to the archive.
  • folders aren't as easy to create or as straightforward to set timers to record into
  • remote keys are somewhat inconsistent across screens
  • lack of series link is a pity, but livable with
  • too many options when setting up timers and searches!
Although the updates are frequent, I wouldn't recommend updating very often once you've got things set up; I've turned off the update notifications on mine. The release notes are generally just the list of source code changes, so aren't very descriptive about what's changed either!

Being a software developer myself, these things are not necessarily going to be an issue forever Wink And I'm loving being able to use the box as a music centre using a combination of MiniDlna (server), Cocy (media player) and HiFiCast on my phone.

BTW, my wife gets by with the new box, whereas the Toppy was something she found intuitive. She wouldn't be wanting to buy one of these and set it up herself though!
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alan_m
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:39 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3474
simonc wrote:

[/list]Although the updates are frequent, I wouldn't recommend updating very often once you've got things set up; I've turned off the update notifications on mine. The release notes are generally just the list of source code changes, so aren't very descriptive about what's changed either!


Many updates are for features probably not on the box you own. They often relate to new drivers etc. for one of the newer boxes on which the OpenVix image can be run. However I just back up all my settings and plugins in the Backup manager. If updating the image via USB or a couch flash the process always gives the user the option to restore the settings and plugins from any one of the backups. If updating the image via the software update then all the settings remain without the user having to do anything.
Rarely there is an update that fundamentally changes the underlying Enigma system and so a fresh USB or couch flash without a settings restore needs to be undertaken, However if a box works in the way you want then there is no need to update.
I’ve probably updated to nearly all versions in the past few years without losing any of the settings. I’ve also loaded up some experimental software which has “buggered up” my system but have always managed to quickly recover by re-flashing from an image backup which includes all of the menu configuration settings. Image and settings backup is easy on these boxes.

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TopTapper
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:48 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 225
simonc wrote:
  • a sluggish grid EPG screen

I've not noticed that here but 99% of the time I'm only running up/down now-next on about 30 'Favourites' channels. (Freeview terrestrial EPG on timeshifting disk, 'HD blue 720' skin).

simonc wrote:
  • subtitles are laughably badly timed

Sounds good Wink but I haven't had to (find out how to) use subtitles. (I think someone posted a proposed fix for a subtitles bug yesterday).

simonc wrote:
  • many screens are modal, so for example you have to exit the EPG to get to the archive

Yes, it's easy to go deep and be trapped. Your example is the most frequent 'trap' here.

simonc wrote:
  • folders aren't as easy to create or as straightforward to set timers to record into

Absolutely and the language is often liable to confuse (bookmark/favourite/location).

simonc wrote:
  • remote keys are somewhat inconsistent across screens

Yup, mainly the colour buttons, I think. (Slightly conflicted here: my sharp-witted granddad gave me some colour-coded dominoes in my early teens. A nice set but I'm sure it was a veiled insult Smile)

simonc wrote:
  • lack of series link is a pity, but livable with

Yup. I've got an overdose of tuners so it's not likely to ever matter. I'm more concerned about overruns/unscheduled changes. I think I activated the "VIP" functionality but I'm not sure if it's working or applicable to UK Freeview.

simonc wrote:
  • too many options when setting up timers and searches!

Yup. Also, I didn't realise at first that when you hit Record in the EPG and are presented with Green (timer) & Blue (autotimer) options you can hit "OK" on either and avoid the deep options. Originally, I was following the colour cues ending up in the deep. (I think alan_m pointed me in the right direction, here).

simonc wrote:
Although the updates are frequent, I wouldn't recommend updating very often once you've got things set up

I've updated around 15 times in total, without any significant issues. Only one update required a restore - even then it was all via couch/Remote/Image Manager. The restore didn't hook up the e2player plugin properly but a quick reinstall of the plugin didn't overwrite any of its config. Apart from that, I've factory reset the front panel display plugin a couple of times but that's it. All good and mostly unnecessary. Smile

simonc wrote:
Being a software developer myself, these things are not necessarily going to be an issue forever Wink

Christmas approaches Wink Smile

simonc wrote:
I'm loving being able to use the box as a music centre using a combination of MiniDlna (server), Cocy (media player) and HiFiCast on my phone.

Sounds great. So far, I've done no more than use i2player for catch-up and occasionally stream to my phone in the garden (WiFi sits on a firewall appliance [yes, bad] which I run at low-power so I can't get far before losing signal. On the plus side, I might be able to give Hockney a run for his money with these World Cup screenshots Smile
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alan_m
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:02 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3474
TopTapper wrote:
simonc wrote:
  • a sluggish grid EPG screen

I've not noticed that here but 99% of the time I'm only running up/down now-next on about 30 'Favourites' channels. (Freeview terrestrial EPG on timeshifting disk, 'HD blue 720' skin).


In my grid epg operation is virtually instantaneous in all bouquets (30ish channels in the favourites bouquet or all scanned channels in other bouquets). However I mainly watch satellite. What may slow down the grid EPG are picons stored on a hard disk that spins down (not automatically time-shifting). The disk may have to spin up to fetch the picons/channel icons. I have my EPG and Picons stored on a USB stick plugged into the back of my box. Sluggish picons can be checked by disabling them in the relevant EPG settings menu.

Quote:

simonc wrote:
  • subtitles are laughably badly timed

Sounds good Wink but I haven't had to (find out how to) use subtitles. (I think someone posted a proposed fix for a subtitles bug yesterday).


On satelitte
When pressing the subtitle button I have the choice of teletex or DVB for the subtitles. For me, on a pre-recorded program...
Teletext = very delayed subtitles
DVB = instant subtitles

For live subtitle generation the delay may depend on studio or outside broadcast and just checking BBC news the auto generated (speech recognition) subtites seem to be very delayed for both studio and outside on both SD and HD.

For Terrestrial

I only have the option of DVB
On a pre-recorded program the subtitles are near instant and synced to both speech and music lyrics.

For live subtitle generation on BBC news the auto generated (speech recognition) subtitles seem to be very slightly delayed[1] for studio and very delayed for outside broadcast.

[1]
Sometimes in sync and sometimes perhaps half a sentance behind. Major delays when someone started speaking and mix of English and Welsh!

Quote:

simonc wrote:
  • many screens are modal, so for example you have to exit the EPG to get to the archive

Yes, it's easy to go deep and be trapped. Your example is the most frequent 'trap' here.


I don't tend to find this a problem as repeatedly pressing the exit button takes me back up through the menu levels.

Quote:

simonc wrote:
  • folders aren't as easy to create or as straightforward to set timers to record into

Absolutely and the language is often liable to confuse (bookmark/favourite/location).


This is one area where I would agree. Setting up a folder is not be that intuitive. I tend to FTP or SAMBA to the box and create the folder from my PC. Moving between a filelist and bookmark by pressing the menu button is not obvious nor is it obvious why you have to reallocate a folder name to a bookmark name in the first palce. Why not place the recording in the folder rather than to a bookmark?

Quote:

simonc wrote:
  • remote keys are somewhat inconsistent across screens

Yup, mainly the colour buttons, I think. (Slightly conflicted here: my sharp-witted granddad gave me some colour-coded dominoes in my early teens. A nice set but I'm sure it was a veiled insult Smile)


I don't find this a problem. Some of the inconstancies are in the menu items related to the initial configuration of the box and wouldn't be seen in the day to day operation of the box. At least all of the colour buttons also have a text functional description. I think part of the problem with some of the inconstancies is the provenance of the software. Some of the inbuilt functionality of OpenVix seem to have been originally third party plugins that also had to be compatable with the alternative Enigma2 images.

Quote:

simonc wrote:
  • lack of series link is a pity, but livable with

Yup. I've got an overdose of tuners so it's not likely to ever matter. I'm more concerned about overruns/unscheduled changes. I think I activated the "VIP" functionality but I'm not sure if it's working or applicable to UK Freeview.


In the years I've owned my current box I've not knowingly missed a recording in a series.

Quote:

simonc wrote:
  • too many options when setting up timers and searches!

Yup. Also, I didn't realise at first that when you hit Record in the EPG and are presented with Green (timer) & Blue (autotimer) options you can hit "OK" on either and avoid the deep options. Originally, I was following the colour cues ending up in the deep. (I think alan_m pointed me in the right direction, here).


Yep, pressing record withing the EPG allows the setting pages to be bypassed but the user default options need to be set for your general recording prefferences.

I don't believe the number of important setting that can be changed is much different to that in MyStuff. Both Mystuff and OpenVix allow quick setings for recordings and, from memory, if you wanted to set filters in Mystuff you had to bring up another menu. Many of the settings in OpenVix can just be left at the user configured default values. In OpenVix setting up to check for a program on say 3 different channel can be done from the menus. In Mystuff a configuration file first had to FTP'd to the box before the 3 channels could be chosen in the menu.

In my opinion, anyone who got to grips with the Mystuff installation and configuration, especially in the early days, shouldn’t have too much trouble with an Enigma 2 box running OpenVix. However even on these Toppy forums there are people who wouldn’t install any TAPs or patches and others who seem to have had major problems with the more user friendly PC software aimed at making the Toppy maintenance or configuration a lot easier. For these people perhaps an Enigma 2 box is not the way to go.

As with any box, the day to day usage only requires a very small subset of the menu options. Most of the menus relate to setting the box up for the first time and changing the look and feel of the box. Quite a few of the menu items disappear if the “simple” mode is selected – however I would recommend selecting the expert mode to see what other options are available

As an aside – my mother recently had to upgrade to a Virgin Tivo box. It has a truly poor user interface.

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goodolpete
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:55 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 189
Thanks to the guys on this thread for such an informative discussion.
The only box that I can now find with exclusive T2 tuners is this:
https://www.world-of-satellite.co.uk/Mutant/mut@nt-mutant-hd51
My wife looks at a PVR as a black box, she’s the kind that if she presses
a button, if nothing happens quickly, she’ll press it again, then hold it
down, so I worry that she’ll fowl up some config. Is this likely. Also
she wants neighbours piped to a bedroom TV. I asked before, I was told
DLNA was the way forward, which this box doesn’t appear to support

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TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; PruneEPG 1.0;
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ccs
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:04 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 2481
Neighbours - just one possible solution from the OpenViX forum...…

Quote:
I'd suggest a Single tuner E2 box from WoS, then use Channels importer plugin (in openvix feeds) over the network to watch on channels on the upstairs TV.

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TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -FmXl+CtEzIScVdZ
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.6;
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ccsx
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alan_m
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:20 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3474
ccs wrote:
Neighbours - just one possible solution from the OpenViX forum...…

Quote:
I'd suggest a Single tuner E2 box from WoS, then use Channels importer plugin (in openvix feeds) over the network to watch on channels on the upstairs TV.


Another option is watching on a networked PC/laptop using the inbuilt web interface.

I'm not sure about live TV but I configured a friend's SMART networked TV to see the recored programs on the box's hard drive and play any of the recordings using the TVs remote to select from the list. Transfer was over Wi-fi.

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ccs
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:57 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 2481
… I use an amazon fire tv to access ViX from another tv over wifi.

When I say "use", the novelty soon wore off!

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TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.6;
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ccsx
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alan_m
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:38 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3474
goodolpete wrote:
Thanks to the guys on this thread for such an informative discussion.
The only box that I can now find with exclusive T2 tuners is this:
https://www.world-of-satellite.co.uk/Mutant/mut@nt-mutant-hd51


Check out the Miraclbox thread in these forums (later posts) for other suggestions.
Even though on the WOS site you may only be able to find satellite/T2 combinations some of the other boxes take plug in tuners and WOS may/will be able to supply fully populated T2 tuners if you give them a call. Some of the T2 tuners are dual tuners in one slot.

Whats starting to happen with satellite is a change of technology with one cable to a LNB and a satellite tuner module having 8+ tuners.

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