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macmac

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:09 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 24 Apr 2012 Posts: 125

Re: 5800

I wish to replace the current HDD with a larger 1TB HDD

Q1: I've checked several articles on this site but was wondering if there's a step-by-step guide ?

And I have the following queries:

1: IDE/SATA Adabtor: StarTech IDE2SAT
I've ordered this, as it's listed as a known-working-adaptor.

2: Re: Samsung_HD103UJ_BU_HDD
This is also listed as a known-working-HDD.
So I wish to use this, as I already have one which I've been using occasionally as an external BU drive for my PC.

I've removed all of the PC's files from this HDD, so...

Q2: Do I need to re-format it ?
If so:
a: Can I do this via a caddy connected to my PC ?
...if so: what format is it ?
or...
b: Must it be done in the Toppy 5800 ?
c: ...if so: How do I do that ?

3: IDE Cable:
Q3: Which is preferable, for the best performance ?

a: Use the original Toppy IDE cable (if I can make it reach) ?
or...
b: Use a new 80 wire IDE (cut to length, if necessary) ?

Q4: Did it make any difference cutting off the unused 3rd connector from the 80 wire IDE cable ?

4: Moving everything to the new HDD:

Q5: Can I just copy everything across, from the Toppies original HDD to the new HDD, using my PC & PC caddy ?

Re: 5810:
Q6: Will the above update be the same & work OK in the 5810 ?

Many thanks.

Last edited by macmac on Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
_________________
TF5800, IA On, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MyStuff 6.4; PcControl B1.3; SecCache (UK) v0.4;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 28/11/14 ++ 1TB HDD Upgrade?

alan_m

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:50 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3536

macmac wrote:

Q2: Do I need to re-format it ?
If so:
a: Can I do this via a caddy connected to my PC ?
...if so: what format is it ?
or...
b: Must it be done in the Toppy 5800 ?
c: ...if so: How do I do that ?

Format it in the Toppy. The first time after booting the Toppy with the new disk it will probably detect and format it for you. Otherwise, one of the Toppy's menu options is to format the disk.

Quote:

3: IDE Cable:
Q3: Which is preferable, for the best performance ?

Ditch the original Toppy cable and use a 80 way backwards - having first drilled out the blanking plug

Quote:

Q4: Did it make any difference cutting off the unused 3rd connector from the 80 wire IDE cable ?

Cut off the third connector and all of the associated wire. Use a craft knife or a Stanley blade type knife.

Quote:

Re: 5810:
Q5: Will the above update be the same & work OK in the 5810 ?

Yes

_________________
Ex Toppy 5800 user - now migrated to Xtrend ET10000 Enigma 2 box with 2 terrestrial and 2 satellite tuners. Second box Zgemma H9S (Enigma 2, satellite)

ryclark

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:58 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 1604 Location: Shropshire

Quote:

Q5: Can I just copy everything across, from the Toppies original HDD to the new HDD, using my PC & PC caddy ?

You will need ToppyHDRW on your PC to allow it to see and copy any Toppy files.

http://www.topfield.cc/files/Firebird/TopfHDRW_Setup.zip

_________________
TF5800t, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Fm
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Sig generated by MyInfo on 13/10/14?

Bizman

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:52 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 1707

It's worth a read of these too
Replacing your Hard Drive
Disk upgrades - summary of working and non-working models: http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17720

_________________
TF5810, F/W: 5.15.09T 4/9/2009 -FmTe+EzHsVb
TAPs: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; MHEG On/Off A3; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; PruneEPG 1.0; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; Extend v1.7; (fsSave 1.1);
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macmac

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:26 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 24 Apr 2012 Posts: 125

Quote:

Format it in the Toppy. The first time after booting the Toppy with the new disk it will probably detect and format it for you. Otherwise, one of the Toppy's menu options is to format the disk.

On my 'new' HDD:
Rather than laboriously deleting any of its remaining files ?
Is it OK to first format it via my PC & PC caddy (to NTFS) ?

Quote:

Ditch the original Toppy cable and use a 80 way backwards - having first drilled out the blanking plug

Cut off the third connector and all of the associated wire. Use a craft knife or a Stanley blade type knife.

Which plug should I cut off ?

Bob_Swede's pic seems to show he used the black + grey (ie, cut off the blue) & plugged the grey into the mobo, & the black into the HDD, so its the correct way round.

Yet other say to cut off the black ? (use the blue & grey)
...and use the wrong way round ?
& why does it need to be used the wrong way round ?

So does it matter which I remove ?

Many thanks

_________________
TF5800, IA On, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MyStuff 6.4; PcControl B1.3; SecCache (UK) v0.4;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 28/11/14 ++ 1TB HDD Upgrade?

Geoff Bacon

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:17 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4547

You don't need to delete the pc files or format the disk on the pc, just stick it in the toppy once you get the cabling sorted out, The toppy format should be extremely quick (10 secs say) as it only updates a few sectors near the start of the disk (unlike formatting an old floppy drive where every sector had to be written).

Can't help you on sorting out the cabling.

Geoff

_________________
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TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; PruneEPG 1.0; fsSave 1.1; QuickJump 1.72; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Bookmark 3.0; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
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andyfras

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:27 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3476

macmac wrote:

Which plug should I cut off ?

Blue
edit: Cut off the short end (whatever colour)

Quote:

Bob_Swede's pic seems to show he used the black + grey (ie, cut off the blue) & plugged the grey into the mobo, & the black into the HDD

That is correct.
edit: Use the longest section of cable 'backwards'.

Quote:

Yet other say to cut off the black ? (use the blue & grey)
...and use the wrong way round ?
& why does it need to be used the wrong way round ?

It has to do with the earthing of the in-between screening wires in an 80-way cable; the Toppy mobo does not provide this connection, but the HDD does. The mainboard connector is required for this screen connection, so don't cut it off.

There have been some adaptors that were not so critical about screening, but most commonly available ones require it.

Last edited by andyfras on Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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macmac

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:43 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 24 Apr 2012 Posts: 125

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies...

To minimise the down-time, I need to get everything ready, before I dismantle the toppy, so...

After cutting off the blue plug (on my 80 wire cable) there would be about 145mm between the black & the grey plugs...

So is that long enough to reach from mobo to Sata-adaptor on the back of the HDD ?

ALSO:

When moving the recordings from the original to the new HDD:
Can I connect them both to the PC (via USB caddies) at the same time, & copy them from the one drive to the other ?

Thanks

Geoff Bacon

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:28 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4547

You will need to use TopfHDRW to copy the recordings across "quickly" (your other alternative is to copy them slowly using Antares (toppy => pc, swap disk, pc=> toppy).

I believe that you can have both disks connected via USB and use TopfHDRW to copy directly between them. If you attempt this, make sure that the USB ports are on different "USB hubs" and are USB2 or USB3 spec (i.e. not USB1).

For ProgramFiles and contents, do NOT use TopfHDRW as the files won't be copied properly. Instead, with the old disk still in the toppy, use TopManager Snapshot| Take. AFTER using TopfHDRW to transfer the recordings, put the new disk back in the toppy and use Snapshot |Compare/Recover to restore your original ProgramFiles structure.
Note: putting recordings on before MyStuff etc means MS won't get confused should it start without the recordings being present.

If you have't got a USB adapter yet, you need to get somthing like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-2-0-TO-SATA-IDE-CABLE-FOR-HDD-WITH-POWER-ADAPTER-CONVERTER-/380703151472?pt=UK_Computing_Drive_Cables_Adapters&hash=item58a3ad1570 (£7.25). There are cheaper ones but you probably need the power adapter provided with this one.

[edit]Please note that copying is a slow process and you can't assume that you can leave it running overnight (if an error occurs, the copy is likely to pause awaiting input). Your best bet may be to assume that you will have to copy the files in chunks i.e, copy some across, reinstall the old disk and run with it until you get an opportunity to copy some more files. The time t copy will also be dependent on the capacity of your old disk.[/edit]

Geoff

andyfras

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:46 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3476

macmac wrote:

After cutting off the blue plug (on my 80 wire cable) there would be about 145mm between the black & the grey plugs...

So is that long enough to reach from mobo to Sata-adaptor on the back of the HDD ?

Perhaps you have a non-standard lead. On every one I've used, there's about 300mm between black and grey connectors.

_________________
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macmac

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:50 am

Frequent contributor Joined: 24 Apr 2012 Posts: 125

Quote:

Perhaps you have a non-standard lead. On every one I've used, there's about 300mm between black and grey connectors.

My lead is: (black) 145mm (grey) 285 (blue)

see here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-RETAIL-PACK-ATA100-80-way-IDE-Hard-Disk-Drive-Ribbon-Cable-45CM-dw1-/251491090990?pt=UK_Computing_Drive_Cables_Adapters&hash=item3a8e09822e&nma=true&si=iHxmL3Gsf96FLBMa5O3keIfqFbU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

So will 145mm be ling enough ?

Thanks

andyfras

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:18 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3476

I suspect that they've used non-standard colours. I would chop off the shorter connection.

You could try it both ways before cutting off the surplus.

macmac

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:03 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 24 Apr 2012 Posts: 125

It seems correct to me ?

NB: Despite the way the colours look in the above image, they are:
(black) 145mm (grey) 285 (blue)

In a PC:
don't the black & the grey normally go to say: 2 HDD's & the blue to the PC mobo ?

If so: Then the black & the grey are quite close to each other, like shown in this image:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IDE-UDMA-ULTRA-ATA-133-HARD-DISK-DRIVE-RIBBON-CABLE-DVD-/110928970740?

Thanks

k9oxon

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:28 pm

Regular contributor Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 51 Location: Devon (Caradon Hill X'mttr)

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I just popped on to search this very topic. Andy, for clarity, is it the Master (black) and the Slave (grey) sockets that should be used, with the mobo (blue) one and associated cable removed. Which one goes into the SATA adaptor?

Ron
Whoops just found you have answered that question - missed it on my trawl through.

andyfras

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:33 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3476

It seems that there are different colour conventions of IDE cable.

Cut off the shortest end, then connect the lead "backwards". This means the connector that would normally go to the motherboard goes to the SATA adapter. The connector that would normally go to the disk connects to the Toppy mainboard (having drilled out the blanked hole).

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