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Jemster
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:57 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 25 Mar 2008 Posts: 63 Location: Belfast, UK
Hey guys, been a long time since I've posted, just a sign everything is going well I guess... Not so much at the moment though!

I am running the latest MyStuff and a few other minor taps, none of which I believe are implicated in the problem I'm having... Basically, everything works absolutely fine and then my sister-in-law comes to stay and it all goes wrong. What's this got to do with Toppy? Well, I'm not sure, but it's happened twice now and it's probably not coincidence. Rolling Eyes

Basically, everything is absolutely fine, then, the next morning I will turn on the tv and find the Toppy is sitting at the basic Installation Main Menu, no video playing in the smll window, and unable to exit the menu. Both Recording and Organising Favourites are greyed out, pressing menu or exit makes no difference.

This happened back in summertime, and I couldn't work out how to get out of it and get back to the usual MyStuff boot up. Powering off and on made no difference, just back to the same menu. Back then I hadn't updated for a while so I pulled the unit and spent an evening putting all the latest and greatest TAPs on it. Plugged it back in and everything was great again. Until today.

Now I'm back at that same point again. I think somehow (somebody) is pressing some strange combination of buttons on the remote and getting it into this state, but I don't have a clue what that could be. I really don't want to install the world again, and I don't think that's necessary. I think, somehow, it's getting into some weird setup mode that I know nothing about.... How do I get it out and back to normal? Anyone got any idea what's going on?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm stumped and the solution is probably easy Wink Confused

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5800 TS On. F/W: 13.65+patches, TAPs:MyStuff 6.5; HDFW
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andyfras
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:03 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3477
If the Toppy has lost its tuning or has had a factory reset, you cannot exit the menu until it has been tuned.

Have the PSU capacitors been replaced yet? If not, that is a possible reason for the problem.

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Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.6 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver : Prune EPG
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 320GB 2.5", Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScUUuWfZ
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Jemster
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:14 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 25 Mar 2008 Posts: 63 Location: Belfast, UK
All it's ever had has been a new hard drive. Although I accept there Could be a fault, I am suspicious that this happened twice now and both times with the same person (who hates technology!) being left with the unit. That, to me, makes me think she's got it into some kind of service mode?

Is there any such thing? I am willing to bet if I hook it up to the computer again and re-blast it with taps, it'll come out singing and dancing like nothing ever happened. I just don't have the time at the moment to do that... Sad

I'll read up on the caps now....

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HydeTheDarkerSide
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:26 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 5956 Location: Hannington Transmitter : Sony KDL 40Z5800
You need the caps done Wink

No one has ever found a hidden service menu or key combination that triggers your symptoms. But not having the caps done will do.

The only other cause I've seen for this is a signal failure. Although what exactly happens to cause this I don't know since we used to perform an aerial pull test during recordings in the early days of firmware testing and never saw a system reset. But I have experienced the low signal issue myself.

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Hyde.
[size=10:da1fd20a33][b:da1fd20a33]2x TF5800 All controlled with Harmony Ultimate [/b:da1fd20a33], TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -RSy+BmC0CbCfCtDsEgEmEvFsGIMPePsR0ScUUuWfXZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.3; EPG2MEI v0.96; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MyInfo B5.6; MyStuff 6.5 RC2;
[color=blue:da1fd20a33]MyStuff Links: http://www.toppy.org.uk/~mystuff/index.shtml[/color:da1fd20a33]
Sig generated by MyInfo on 11/10/13[/size:da1fd20a33]
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Jemster
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:43 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 25 Mar 2008 Posts: 63 Location: Belfast, UK
Ok, I'll pop to Maplins at lunch and grab some caps... Still find it far too coincidental. Chances of failure with same person in house after 150 days before last failure? Very very slim. This unit is left powered on 24/7. I just don't get it.

I see I can meter out the voltages to check before I get stuck in. I'll do that tonight before replacing bits...

Strangely MyInfo just threw up its summary screen on the last reboot.... So that's a bit random....

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Jemster
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:09 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 25 Mar 2008 Posts: 63 Location: Belfast, UK
Oh... Bottom... Very Happy I've just read Maplin capacitors don't last long in a Toppy - Ahhh that'd be you, Andy, who wrote that.

I suppose I'd better meter out the PSU tonight and see what's happening - do you still have packs of capacitors suitable for the job? It's a TF5800, think it's about a 2007 unit. I just may ask you to mail out a set if these voltages look strange...

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andyfras
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:15 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3477
PM sent regarding capacitor kit.

I suggest that you retune before thinking about reinstalling TAPs etc. They are probably all still there on the disk, but the disk is greyed out until a retune is done.

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Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.6 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver : Prune EPG
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 320GB 2.5", Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScUUuWfZ
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Sudbury_Dave
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:06 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 12 Feb 2012 Posts: 28 Location: Sudbury, Suffolk
Jemster wrote:
I just may ask you to mail out a set if these voltages look strange...

Bite Andys hand off, you will not get a better set of caps for that price and he is very quick to post

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Regards,
Dave
TF5800t, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009
TAPs: PcControl B1.3; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.5; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 14/7/13
?
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Jemster
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:17 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 25 Mar 2008 Posts: 63 Location: Belfast, UK
Sudbury_Dave wrote:
Jemster wrote:
I just may ask you to mail out a set if these voltages look strange...

Bite Andys hand off, you will not get a better set of caps for that price and he is very quick to post


Very Happy Smile I'm sure he is, and if it needs done, then that's who I'll be getting them from Smile.

I guess I don't want to do it, if it doesn't need done. I still can't get the level of coincidence out of my head. If it's as simple as it's lost all its channels, perhaps there is some weird thing that can be done that can reset the channels. Heck with the level of "technical expertise" combined with short-sightedness that the user has, it's possible that the individual in question has actually gone to the menu item labelled factory reset and factory reset the box without realising it...

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Sudbury_Dave
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:25 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 12 Feb 2012 Posts: 28 Location: Sudbury, Suffolk
Jemster wrote:
I guess I don't want to do it, if it doesn't need done. I still can't get the level of coincidence out of my head. If it's as simple as it's lost all its channels, perhaps there is some weird thing that can be done that can reset the channels. Heck with the level of "technical expertise" combined with short-sightedness that the user has, it's possible that the individual in question has actually gone to the menu item labelled factory reset and factory reset the box without realising it...

Well the what you have described is exactly what my Toppy did and the fix was new caps. If they have not been replaced and your Toppy is more than 3 years old, its living on borrowed time. If they are going then delaying replacing them could well destroy the hard disk while you are trying to reinstall the software, that's what happened to mine. Mad

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Regards,
Dave
TF5800t, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009
TAPs: PcControl B1.3; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.5; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 14/7/13
?
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:33 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 4588
I too think it is the capacitors and that you have just been "lucky" to have it working for so long after the first fault.

Having said that, what kind of remote are you using? I seem to remember a post saying that a universal remote (obtained from Lidl) can send a sequence that mashes the toppy (I bought one of these but I don't use it!)

Anyway, change the capacitors first.

If the disk is then working, install my fsCheck tap and paste the results in the fsCheck reports thread. This will give you some confidence in the state of the disk and it's contents.

You might also like to try TopManager (link in my signature) - you can also use this to install the fsCheck tap.

Geoff

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TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; PruneEPG 1.0; fsSave 1.1; QuickJump 1.72; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Bookmark 3.0; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 29/12/18
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Jemster
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:05 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 25 Mar 2008 Posts: 63 Location: Belfast, UK
I'm pretty sure the disk is good, I can hear it spin up, and the fact that it launched MyInfo, for whatever reasons, makes me think that side of things is intact.

I'm using a Logitech Harmony remote, it's been great, but potentially there could be something there causing a mashup sequence to be sent... Interesting one, because I'd be more inclined to think along those lines, given the errr... "Environmental Factors" at work here Razz

Not gonna get to it until after work, at which point I'll try a re-scan and see if it discovers anything. If so, it may just work from there on. If not, then I'll strip it down and meter out those voltages and get the caps kit ordered off Andy.

As a Mac owner, it's a right pain in the wotsits having to work with TAPs. There isn't any application any more for downloading to the unit (the old application for doing this, MacTF is PowerPC only and isn't supported on any OS X since about 2010). So it took me to set up a Windows Virtual Machine and lots of other messing just to get communication re-established.

I'm gonna go search out the Lidl Universal Remote problem though, because that sounds plausible.

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Jemster
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:07 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 25 Mar 2008 Posts: 63 Location: Belfast, UK
Oh wow... http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=115641#115641

Specifically....

For those who are brave and/or interested there are also some 'special' codes used in Topfield's service remote (take care!!)


**SERVICE REMOTE**
**Test bars ? black and red split half screen.......EFC:004 OBC:124
**Test bars ? black and blue split half screen.....EFC:006 OBC:126
**DANGER** CORRUPT THE HARD DISK...............EFC:007 OBC:122
**Test bars ? black and green split half screen...EFC:008 OBC:125
**DANGER** FACTORY RESET..............................EFC:010 OBC:127
**Test bars ? black and white split half screen...EFC:011 OBC:123

So if the remote happened to somehow send EFC:010 OBC:127 then the unit would do what I'm seeing!??!! No??

( Sorry, Edit: Let me re-phrase that... IF (when I get back home) a re-scan restores everything... and there are no further issues seen... THEN this is likely what has happened? Embarassed )

Ouch Ouch Ouch... Evil or Very Mad

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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:29 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 4588
Even if a rescan works, you should still change the capacitors (based on your joining date, the toppy is about 5 years old). Consider Andy's "swap a board" service if you don't want to solder and you don't want to be without the box while he fixes it.

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzPfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; PruneEPG 1.0; fsSave 1.1; QuickJump 1.72; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Bookmark 3.0; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; MyInfo B5.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
Sig generated by EMJB's MyInfo.tap on 29/12/18
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Jemster
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:37 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 25 Mar 2008 Posts: 63 Location: Belfast, UK
Quick Update...

So I performed a fresh channel search, and lo and behold, I have a working Toppy again.

I am still leaning towards somehow the Logitech Harmony sent a reset code to the Toppy to be honest. I find it hard to believe that faulty caps would give a single reset fault twice in 6 months and be perfect all the rest of the time. Despite the unit age, it's not played up on me and is left on 24/7 so when it goes, I'll fix it... if it ain't broke, don't fix it springs to mind Smile

Of course, I will keep an eye on it, and if it happens again (when the errr external environmental issue is not present... Very Happy ) then I shall go for the PSU armed with a multimeter and find out what's going on.

Thanks so much for all the advice. Andy, I will take you up on those caps if this problem surfaces again, but for now I'm going to chase up on the issue on the Logitech support forums and see if anyone can shed any light there about the possibility of a stray reset code and how I could debug such a thing.

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