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HydeTheDarkerSide
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:42 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 5956 Location: Hannington Transmitter : Sony KDL 40Z5800
I have to say, I was a little gob smacked about the EPG set timers. I thought that when Topfield gave us the correct method of changing from GMT/BST/GMT; that this followed through to selecting programs from the EPG.

All it needed to do was look at the date/time combination and either apply the offset, or not, as the case may be.

Simply, changing the bl**dy clock was not my understanding of handling the DST changes.

I feel a new bug entry coming on... Rolling Eyes

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Hyde.
[size=10:da1fd20a33][b:da1fd20a33]2x TF5800 All controlled with Harmony Ultimate [/b:da1fd20a33], TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -RSy+BmC0CbCfCtDsEgEmEvFsGIMPePsR0ScUUuWfXZ
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Mark_B
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:48 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 254
Agree - this needs registering as a bug in that the whole matter needs to be seen as transparent from the user end - the epg shows local time both before and after the clock change, and the timers also show the same so there is no confusion

Quote:
Hi guys,

I'm moving this topic off to the General discussions area since this isn't a bug.

Yet

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Hyde.



Can someone move this back to the Bug area whence it started, please? (Thanks) The hanging Yet in Hydes post proving too true.......


Nigel - thanks for the info on FAQs - really clarified it subsinctly.
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nwhitfield
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:55 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 9579
I'll add this as a new feature request....

I think the current behaviour is a clear case of getting exactly what you ask for - automatic changing to and from BST, by altering the time offset.

What we don't have is an EPG that takes into account the fact that the offset will change at a particular time, and obviously that's where the confusion is going to arise. We should probably have thought about this more at the time.

Adding the code to change the offset was probably a very quick and easy job. Integrating into the EPG maybe less so, but I shall mention it next week when I go to visit Turbosat.

Nigel.

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Mark_B
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:12 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 254
Obviously they now have at least to March to consider an epg approach! (So not top of the bug list by anyway)
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digital
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:42 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 360
The new FAQ (thanks for that Nigel) says 'However if, before the change to or from BST, you set a timer from the EPG for the period after the change - which happens at 2am Sunday morning - the time will be wrong'.

As Jag's EPG uses the EPG to set timers using its search function, am I correct in thinking that all of these timers already set for next week will be wrong?

Assuming I'm not wrong, and in view of the fact that all of my timers are set using this method, would it be simplest to delete all timers (other than Jag's scan) on Sunday morning and let Jag's reset them?

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HydeTheDarkerSide
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:52 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 5956 Location: Hannington Transmitter : Sony KDL 40Z5800
That's what I'm going to do.

Doesn't help those folk who aren't around this weekend though Sad

If I look at my UK Timers list I can see "Have I Got News for You" set for tonight at 21:28 ~ 22:04, but next weeks is showing as 22:28 ~ 23:04.

I'm tempted to wait a little on Sunday though just to see if Jag's then changes the timers during one of it's updates, but only out of curiosity. I'm still going to delete them all and start again.

Just one other point....

Make sure your overnight Jag's scan isn't over the 2am time change. I don't know what the impact might be. Mines set 03:18 ~ 03:57 scanning 30 channels for 60 seconds a channel.

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Hyde.
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nwhitfield
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:56 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 9579
To an extent, what things like Jag's will do is a little unknown, since we've not had this before. I think our Toppy is the only one that has an automatic DST function; we'll hopefuly have more information about how things behave after the change.

With regard to asking Topfield to change the EPG to make it aware, we shall have to word that very carefully; for example, do we want the EPG itself to do make the changes, in which case software like Jag's will still display stuff as an hour out, unless it's also altered to understand BST? Or do we want a change to the API, so that when any EPG type software accesses the EIT data, changes to daylight savings time are taken into account?

Perhaps I should ask developers in the appropriate part of the forums - essentially, what I'm saying is that asking for the EPG to be tweaked might not be quite as straightforward as we think.

Nigel.

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msp
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:03 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 53
nwhitfield wrote:

Perhaps I should ask developers in the appropriate part of the forums - essentially, what I'm saying is that asking for the EPG to be tweaked might not be quite as straightforward as we think.

Nigel.


Well I would recommend two changes:-

1) Do everything internally in GMT. This a the standard solution to dealing with timezones etc. and avoids lots of issues.

Just this change would make all the timers work correctly.

The raw EPG is in GMT, so recordings set up on either side of the change would work correctly.

2) Modify the GMT times to local time before displaying them to the user.

A naive conversion of just adding a fixed offset to convert to local time would be fairly ok, but would give incorrect results when looking across the time change.

On the other hand it is easy to code and explain and is what I believe the Toppy does now!!!! Smile

A proper GMT_to_local_time library routine would use a different offset for converting local time depending on if the date associated with the time is in day light savings or not and on the configured timezone.

The key thing is to do timers in GMT, so that the actual BST change does not invalidate them......
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andrec
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:21 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 1349 Location: Bristol, U.K.
I've just remembered that I've set a recording of some of the educational progammes on BBC2 in the wee small hours on the night of the clock change. I'm recording something that starts at 0100 - the *second* 0100, that is, which would have been 0200 BST.

I think under these circumstances, I can forgive almost any interpretation by the Toppy! I've added an extra hour at the end, on the assumption that it will, not unreasonably, start recording the first time 0100 comes round.

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André Coutanche
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wro
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:43 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 89
Urm, went to check Timer Setting and it was already on Auto and 00.00 offset. I haven't touched this setting at all. The Toppy seems to have already gone to GMT without telling it to. I looked at 18.00 BST, and the time was displayed as 17.00. Bit confused. Confused
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HydeTheDarkerSide
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:48 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 5956 Location: Hannington Transmitter : Sony KDL 40Z5800
What date does your Toppy think it is? Confused

Mine hasn't yet changed the time.

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Hyde.
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wro
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:29 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 89
HydeTheDarkerSide wrote:
What date does your Toppy think it is? Confused

Mine hasn't yet changed the time.


Under Time Setting menu:

Mode: Auto
Local Time: 29/10/05 20.22
GMT: 29/10/05 20.22
Time Offset: 00.00

I was tuned into BBC1, which has currently got Outtake TV on. I had a look at Jag's EPG, and under it's listing of BBC 1 programmes Outtake TV is apparently on at 20.00-20.30! So JAG's has corrected itself, but why has my Toppy changed early. Any ideas?
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HydeTheDarkerSide
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:43 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 5956 Location: Hannington Transmitter : Sony KDL 40Z5800
No ideas at all...

Even if you'd got the time offset wrong to start with, I have no idea why it should change today Confused Confused Shocked Confused Confused

As a "shot in the dark" attempt, you don't have the language of the Toppy set to anything other than English? I'm just wondering if the language setting used might effect the date on which a DST change kicks in.

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Hyde.
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chunkywizard
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:48 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 13 May 2005 Posts: 9319 Location: Sindlesham, Berkshire Tx: Hannington
..try setting the offset to Auto not 00:00, I think that might do it.

Cheers

Chunkywizard

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glesgaguy
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:58 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 178
This thread is doing my head in Confused Confused Confused

All this talk about "how BST wil affect the Toppy's Timers" Sad Sad Sad

Isn't this the perfect opportunity for all PVR users to Lobby/harrass the powers at be to change this antiquated perversion of changing the time every year to benfit the Farmers/agricultural community.

After all when this idea was conceived there was no "electrcity" and the only benifit was that cows could be "milked" in daylight.

Sorry if any Toppy users are from the above community but it really would make life a lot simpler for those that live in the 21st centuary Laughing Laughing Laughing
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