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<  Firmwares, enhancements and upgrades  ~  New drive not recognised

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rsmallwood
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:10 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 13 Sep 2012 Posts: 4
Hi

Not sure if you anyone can help, but I have installed the latest recommended firmware to my TF5800PVR (C.456) and then installed a new HDD (WD3200JB, which appears on the 'working' list). Having installed the disk, when I fire up the Toppy it gets stuck on C.456. The disk does not appear to spin, but I can put it into standby.

I thought I would be asked to format the disk. Do I need to prepare the disk in any way?

The unit still seems to work fine with the old disk in.

Any thoughts?

Thanks
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andyfras
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:23 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3468
Are you sure that the disk is OK?

Is it set as a Slave? It should be Master or Cable Select.

Depending where the disk was used previously (assuming that it's not new), your Toppy may be trying to read some data from it. It may be necessary to put the disk in a PC and deselect its partitions, or format it, then try again in the Toppy.

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rsmallwood
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:32 am Reply with quote
Joined: 13 Sep 2012 Posts: 4
Thanks for your reply. It is actually a new drive and I think the jumper was originally on Cable Select, but I also tried it on Master.

I borrowed a friend's IDE cradle and plugged it into my PC. The disk needed initializing in Windows before it was recognised. I initialized it as Master Boot Record. There were no volumes defined, thus nothing is formatted.

I can't try it now, until I get home, but is there anything else I need to do to the disk before putting it back in the Toppy?

Thanks again!
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alan_m
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:54 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3523
rsmallwood wrote:
I can't try it now, until I get home, but is there anything else I need to do to the disk before putting it back in the Toppy?


The Toppy should immediately offer to format the disk.
Are you replacing the disk because the old one is becomming unreliable? If so the problem may not be the hard disk but the power supplies (easily fixable).
Have you checked the PSU voltages?
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Topfield_5800/PSU_Repair

[edit]
This disk appears to have quite a high power consumption at spin-up
Spin-up TYPICAL 24W max 32W!

http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1304/~/specifications-for-the-320-gb-special-edition-eide-drive-(model-wd3200jb)

Often when people replace a hard disk they go for a "green" disk that takes a lot less power than the originals fitted by Topfield. You may be going the other way and are installing a disk that requires more power (on spin-up). If the power supply is starting to fail taking more power may push the voltages to levels where the disk will not spin up.
[/edit]

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rsmallwood
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:24 am Reply with quote
Joined: 13 Sep 2012 Posts: 4
Thanks again.

I will try the disk tonight, and if it does not work will put back the old one and test the PSU voltages. I have an old analogue multi-meter which I will need to replace with a digital one.

I will report back....
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alan_m
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:02 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3523
rsmallwood wrote:
Thanks again.

I will try the disk tonight, and if it does not work will put back the old one and test the PSU voltages. I have an old analogue multi-meter which I will need to replace with a digital one.

I will report back....


The analogue meter should be OK.
Digital meters start at around 4 incl postage on ebay.
More robust meters around 8
Autoranging meters around 15/20

Usual warning
While removing a hard disk make sure that you remove the mains plug and wait a couple of minutes. With the Toppy connected to the mains, even in standby, there is 300+ Volts on an exposed metal heat sinks. The 300V will bite you if you touch it or if you accidentally short out the heatsink to chassis with a metal screwdriver whilst removing screws you will kill components in the power supply (it can be fixed if you do)
See first photo at:
http://www.admac.myzen.co.uk/toppy_fan/

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juwlz
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:32 am Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10804 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
This section of the forum has a sticky thread listing hard drives that are known to work (or known not to work) in a Toppy. You would be wise to choose a known working model. It's not unheard of for a drive (especially one that requires more juice that the original Toppy drive) to work for a short period of time (weeks or months) and then fail.

I'd be inclined to return that one as unsuitable for your needs, and pick one that's known to work.

But as Andy has already said, if you're replacing it because you thought the previous one was faulty, check the PSU first. The vast majority of Toppy hard drive failures are caused by a failing PSU, and many things that LOOK like a hard drive failure are actually a failing PSU. In these cases, replacing the capacitors is enough to revive the hard drive too - and it's cheaper! (PM Andyfras - he can supply a good quality Toppy-specific capacitor kit for less than the minimum order value from reputable suppliers.)

Julie

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SteveOC
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:24 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Oct 2005 Posts: 23 Location: Wiltshire
To be fair, the OP did make the effort to check the list of supported drives and believed that this drive was listed.
As it turns out, there apperar to be 2 very similar products from the same manufacturer with slightly different specifications - the WD3200JB and the WD3200AVJB. I t appears that the latter is from a range of drives specifically 'optimised' and marketed for use in A/V equipment.

I don't know how many times I have contacted electrical manufacturers about a product because I can't find my exact model number listed only to discover that it is exactly the same as another model, but was only available through a specific reseller - hence the model number differering in designation by 1 or 2 characters. Sometimes even the customer support folks fail to grasp this.
Then of course, sometimes the resellers get confused in their listings.

Let's hope that this is a PSU issue and easily/cheaply fixed - but if not, what else would/could make the Toppy so pernickety about what drive you use?
Neither of these drives appear to be SATA (they seem to be PATA/EIDE) so that complication doesn't exist - unless I am misunderstanding.

I may need to replace/upgrade mine at some point in the near future (I have already sorted the PSU capacitors) and it would be nice to be able to make use of whatever offers the best value for money rather than be limited to what the Toppy 'likes'.

Steve O.

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YorkshireJumbo
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:51 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 823
I ran a WD3200AVJB for a while, and all seemed fine till it suddenly lost a key sector. The drive was secondhand, but I checked it with SpinRite for any problems before installing. I managed to recover the drive with SpinRite and TopfHDRW, but I was worried it might be something fundamentally wrong with the drive.

I bought a secondhand WD5000AVJB from Turbosat, and that's been running fine since April. Only issue is occasional unresponsiveness from the Toppy.

I'm fairly sure it's not a problem with the drive type (both are IDE/PATA); more likely to be a problem with the drive itself (dodgy sectors, etc) or with the Toppy

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rsmallwood
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:54 am Reply with quote
Joined: 13 Sep 2012 Posts: 4
I will get the PSU changed. Sounds the likely candidate for the troubles. I will report back.
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