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100949football
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:39 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 40 Location: Falkirk, scotland
Me again................!

I have two Toppy 5800's...............they are sooooooooooo good!

Toppy one fine after retuning following DSO in my area on the 15th June.

Toppy two.............retuned and found all BBC channels are in their correct places - i.e 1/2/7/9/ etc
Problem:
ITV / Channel 4 / Channel 5/ and numerous others are NOT in their correct locations but DO show up on the tuning process as being located.
On investigation I find these latter channels are located at the numbers 1001 onwards - very frustrating!

BOTH Toppy's are coming off the same transmitter.
Toppy two is displayed from a full digital Panasonic 50" tv has ALL channels correctly located.

Anyone?
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meadfoot
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:41 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 261
Did you do a factory reset BEFORE re-scanning?

_________________
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TF5800, IA On, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -SyXl+WfZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; Bookmark 3.0; MyInfo B5.6; TF5000 Display v1.53; UK Subtitle 1.9; Font Manager 1.0d;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 2/7/13


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HydeTheDarkerSide
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:50 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 5956 Location: Hannington Transmitter : Sony KDL 40Z5800
Are both Toppies running the same firmware?

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Hyde.
[size=10:da1fd20a33][b:da1fd20a33]2x TF5800 All controlled with Harmony Ultimate [/b:da1fd20a33], TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -RSy+BmC0CbCfCtDsEgEmEvFsGIMPePsR0ScUUuWfXZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.3; EPG2MEI v0.96; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MyInfo B5.6; MyStuff 6.5 RC2;
[color=blue:da1fd20a33]MyStuff Links: http://www.toppy.org.uk/~mystuff/index.shtml[/color:da1fd20a33]
Sig generated by MyInfo on 11/10/13[/size:da1fd20a33]
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100949football
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:49 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 40 Location: Falkirk, scotland
meadfoot wrote:
Did you do a factory reset BEFORE re-scanning?


Yes friend,
but just tried it again - did a full rescan and guess what the process has virtually reversed.....BBC programmes now start at 1000 plus.

ITV channels etc are all in correct places ....i.e. 3/4/5/ etc.

Weird
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ryclark
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:06 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 1604 Location: Shropshire
Sounds like multiple transmitters being received with different reception at different times of day.

You probably need to be running FastScan and Channel Organiser TAPs to make sure you have the correct transmitter and get rid of the weaker channels. Also running MyInfo and posting output her and in your signature would help us diagnose what's going wrong.

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TAPs: PcControl B1.4; MyInfo B5.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; MHEG On/Off A3; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; TSSaver v0.5;
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?
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juwlz
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:56 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10802 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
100949football wrote:
but just tried it again - did a full rescan and guess what the process has virtually reversed.....BBC programmes now start at 1000 plus.
That sounds like you are running old firmware without the NitFix patch.

I'm surprised nobody has yet asked you what firmware version you're running. (Well, Hyde did ask if they were the same, but not what either of them actually were.)

If it's 5.13.65T or 5.14.09T (the T is very important in both cases), then you do have the patch, and it's something else.

If not, the first thing you need to do is to download and install the Topfield Tools for Windows (if not already installed), and THEN download the Firmware updater, connect your Toppy to your PC and run that.

While you've got the PC connected, it'll also help us to help you if you install the MyInfo TAP which can generate a text file full of useful info about your Toppy that you can post here.

Julie

_________________
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5810, TS On, F/W: F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +BmCfCtFsR3Z
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100949football
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:36 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 40 Location: Falkirk, scotland
juwlz wrote:
100949football wrote:
but just tried it again - did a full rescan and guess what the process has virtually reversed.....BBC programmes now start at 1000 plus.
That sounds like you are running old firmware without the NitFix patch.

I'm surprised nobody has yet asked you what firmware version you're running. (Well, Hyde did ask if they were the same, but not what either of them actually were.)

If it's 5.13.65T or 5.14.09T (the T is very important in both cases), then you do have the patch, and it's something else.

If not, the first thing you need to do is to download and install the Topfield Tools for Windows (if not already installed), and THEN download the Firmware updater, connect your Toppy to your PC and run that.

While you've got the PC connected, it'll also help us to help you if you install the MyInfo TAP which can generate a text file full of useful info about your Toppy that you can post here.

Julie


Hi friend,

you may note my other posts in which I had a horrendous time trying to update the firmware - using my Imac computer - on my No 1 Toppy.
I did eventually succeed with no problems on No 1 now.
No 2 is now giving me the bother and it IS running on the "original" software - circa 2005 - but I really do not want to go down that road again but looks like I'll have to....... Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
I have also looked at updating the firmware by transferring between machines but no-one appears to have done this....... the facility DOES appear to be there as I've looked at this on the menus.
This method looks a lot easier!!!!!!!!!!!! Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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juwlz
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:29 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10802 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
100949football wrote:
you may note my other posts in which I had a horrendous time trying to update the firmware - using my Imac computer - on my No 1 Toppy.
You may note that this is my 7564th post on the Toppy forums, and according to the stats, I average 3.5 posts per day. Sorry if I don't keep mental track of whose problem is which, or check what else they've posted about every time I reply Laughing (Especially when it makes no difference to what you'll need to do to get things working.)
Quote:
I did eventually succeed with no problems on No 1 now.
No 2 is now giving me the bother and it IS running on the "original" software - circa 2005 - but I really do not want to go down that road again but looks like I'll have to....... Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
Yes, you are. There is no way round it. On the positive side, many other PVRs had to be consigned to land fill as a result of the Split NIT issue, so perhaps you might just want to be grateful that you do still have a way to keep your Toppy alive and well and functioning.
Quote:
I have also looked at updating the firmware by transferring between machines but no-one appears to have done this....... the facility DOES appear to be there as I've looked at this on the menus.
This method looks a lot easier!!!!!!!!!!!! Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
But the difficult bit was installing the drivers and software to get the Toppy to connect. Now you will never have to do that bit again on that PC (unless it trashes your hard drive), plugging the cable between your other Toppy and the same USB port on your PC, and re-running the Firmware installer should be a piece of cake.

Alternatively, you could be the first known person to try the Toppy-to-Toppy method.

Julie

_________________
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alan_m
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:34 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3520
juwlz wrote:
Now you will never have to do that bit again on that PC (unless it trashes your hard drive), plugging the cable between your other Toppy and the same USB port on your PC, and re-running the Firmware installer should be a piece of cake.


Running the firmware installer on a MAC may be a problem Sad but using HDFW again shouldn't Smile

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100949football
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:03 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 40 Location: Falkirk, scotland
Alternatively, you could be the first known person to try the Toppy-to-Toppy method.

Julie[/quote]

Many thanks for your attention to my triviality - it really is gratefully appreciated.

Now............has anyone ever transferred "data" via RS232 "machine to machine"

My Toppy 1 - the one with the updated firmware - has any empty 250GB hard drive.
Toppy 2 - the one with the old firmware (the one currently giving me problems) has a multitude of programmes my wife has recorded - almost filled the 160GB hard-drive - which she wants to keep.
What I would like to do is transfer ALL the recorded programmes from Toppy 2 to Toppy 1 via RS232 (null modem), thus allowing me to play around with Toppy 2 (to instal upgraded firmware) without messing up my wife's precious recordings?
This would also allow Toppy 1 - bigger hard drive (currently in my "toy room" projector etc) to be moved into my lounge where the good lady can watch her recordings, while I mess around with Toppy 2 at my leisure.

Just incidentally - would you be confident of using the RS232 (null modem) method in transferring firmware / data from Toppy 1 to Toppy 2............the menu system appears to indicate this is a feature - so WHY has no one else tried it?

Many thanks
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alan_m
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:32 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3520
100949football wrote:

Toppy 2 - the one with the old firmware (the one currently giving me problems) has a multitude of programmes my wife has recorded - almost filled the 160GB hard-drive - which she wants to keep.
What I would like to do is transfer ALL the recorded programmes from Toppy 2 to Toppy 1 via RS232 (null modem), thus allowing me to play around with Toppy 2 (to instal upgraded firmware) without messing up my wife's precious recordings?
This would also allow Toppy 1 - bigger hard drive (currently in my "toy room" projector etc) to be moved into my lounge where the good lady can watch her recordings, while I mess around with Toppy 2 at my leisure.


Transferring 160G of programs via USB would take a long time and the Toppy is known not be be that reliable with large transfers.

Transferring 160Gbytes over a RS232 serial link, that is possibly running at 9600 baud, would take a minimum of 600 hours (23 days) without a break.

Your best bet is still to use the method you have got working for your first Toppy which, now you have got over the learning curve, is as simple as a drag and drop of files from the computer to the Toppy or visa-versa.

The RS232 link is only practical for small housekeeping jobs.

Be aware that there is a bug in the Toppy firmware that can cause a hard disk to be wiped clean, or so badly corrupted that it needs to be re-formatted. This disk wiping is thought to be caused by recording a program whilst reception is poor. If you are having trouble with program channel allocation because of firmware without the Nitfix patch this could be hiding a multitude duplicate channels from a more distant transmitter. These duplicate channels would be weaker and less reliable and because the Toppy can become confused when asked to record a duplicate channel it may randomly pick the weak one which could be dropping out. This is why posters to these forums often ask if you can post the text report that the Myinfo TAP generates as it can give a LOT of information about potential problems on a Toppy.

Also be aware that when the disk becomes full, or near full, it can become corrupt if you recording at the time. It is usually recommended that you use no more than 90% (ish) of the disk.

If you have anything on the disk that is SO important you really need to archive it of to a computer using the USB link. My personal attitude to archiving is that everything on TV is repeated so often a hard disk problem is only a minor short term inconvenience and I don't transfer any program off my Toppy.

Quote:

so WHY has no one else tried it?


i) so few people have 2 Toppys
ii) few people know what a null modem cable is
iii) few people can modify a null modem cable to a different configuration if it doesn't work
iv) people who haven't found these forums haven't updated firmware since the last over the air transmission (many years ago)
v) most of the 100,000s of people reading these forums have had little trouble with upgrading via USB (after they have gone through the pain of the initial learning curve)
iv) most people don't have a MAC

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100949football
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:20 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 40 Location: Falkirk, scotland
alan_m wrote:
100949football wrote:

Toppy 2 - the one with the old firmware (the one currently giving me problems) has a multitude of programmes my wife has recorded - almost filled the 160GB hard-drive - which she wants to keep.
What I would like to do is transfer ALL the recorded programmes from Toppy 2 to Toppy 1 via RS232 (null modem), thus allowing me to play around with Toppy 2 (to instal upgraded firmware) without messing up my wife's precious recordings?
This would also allow Toppy 1 - bigger hard drive (currently in my "toy room" projector etc) to be moved into my lounge where the good lady can watch her recordings, while I mess around with Toppy 2 at my leisure.


Transferring 160G of programs via USB would take a long time and the Toppy is known not be be that reliable with large transfers.

Transferring 160Gbytes over a RS232 serial link, that is possibly running at 9600 baud, would take a minimum of 600 hours (23 days) without a break.

Your best bet is still to use the method you have got working for your first Toppy which, now you have got over the learning curve, is as simple as a drag and drop of files from the computer to the Toppy or visa-versa.

The RS232 link is only practical for small housekeeping jobs.

Be aware that there is a bug in the Toppy firmware that can cause a hard disk to be wiped clean, or so badly corrupted that it needs to be re-formatted. This disk wiping is thought to be caused by recording a program whilst reception is poor. If you are having trouble with program channel allocation because of firmware without the Nitfix patch this could be hiding a multitude duplicate channels from a more distant transmitter. These duplicate channels would be weaker and less reliable and because the Toppy can become confused when asked to record a duplicate channel it may randomly pick the weak one which could be dropping out. This is why posters to these forums often ask if you can post the text report that the Myinfo TAP generates as it can give a LOT of information about potential problems on a Toppy.

Also be aware that when the disk becomes full, or near full, it can become corrupt if you recording at the time. It is usually recommended that you use no more than 90% (ish) of the disk.

If you have anything on the disk that is SO important you really need to archive it of to a computer using the USB link. My personal attitude to archiving is that everything on TV is repeated so often a hard disk problem is only a minor short term inconvenience and I don't transfer any program off my Toppy.

Quote:

so WHY has no one else tried it?


i) so few people have 2 Toppys
ii) few people know what a null modem cable is
iii) few people can modify a null modem cable to a different configuration if it doesn't work
iv) people who haven't found these forums haven't updated firmware since the last over the air transmission (many years ago)
v) most of the 100,000s of people reading these forums have had little trouble with upgrading via USB (after they have gone through the pain of the initial learning curve)
iv) most people don't have a MAC



Hi Alan,

I fully appreciate everything you have said and I WILL take note.

It would appear the data transfer option would now be a complete no-no so I'll have to revert again to the "pain" of usb to computer. So keep all lines open for the imminent "panic" calls as maybe the "learning curve" I went through only seven days ago may still be a bit toooooooooo steep!
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alan_m
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:16 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3520
alan_m wrote:

Transferring 160Gbytes over a RS232 serial link, that is possibly running at 9600 baud, would take a minimum of 600 hours (23 days) without a break.


Correction to my own poor maths Sad
1G byte over a serial link (allowing for start, stop and parity bits) = 11,000,000,000 bits
Transferred at 9600 bits per second takes 1145833 seconds (318 hours)
Therefore, a 160G byte transfer takes 5.8 years, during which time the capacitors will fail. Smile
At 115,200 baud (the fastest often supported on RS232) = 0.4 years


A firmware transfer could take approx 0.5 hour @ 9600 baud

someone better check my figures Smile

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R2-D2
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:05 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
100949football wrote:
Now............has anyone ever transferred "data" via RS232 "machine to machine"

The Toppy-to-Toppy transfers are limited to firmware and settings. It's not impossible to conceive of a TAP to allow you to do recordings or other files but, as noted above, it's not exactly sensible (not even at the default of 115200 baud).

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juwlz
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:06 am Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10802 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
alan_m wrote:
juwlz wrote:
re-running the Firmware installer should be a piece of cake.
Running the firmware installer on a MAC may be a problem Sad but using HDFW again shouldn't Smile
Oops! Missed / forgot the Mac bit of the equation. Sorry.
alan_m wrote:
A firmware transfer could take approx 0.5 hour @ 9600 baud
... or a minute or two at most over USB.

Julie

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5810, TS On, F/W: F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +BmCfCtFsR3Z
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