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Bawbagg
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:05 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 11 Aug 2005 Posts: 1122
MyStuff_Extended_Info now available for download at:
http://my.opera.com/Bawbagg/


I've been collaborating with BobD for the past day or so to develop an idea I had.

I want to use MyStuff, but I don't want to lose the complete program info that the Toppy default info box provides. I was also getting frustrated because my Jags didn't appear to be scanning very well, and I had a fairly gappy EPG (I've now fixed this with correctly set timer setup Embarassed).

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I've written a little tool that takes 14 day program info from XMLTV and formats it into a Jags' .CSV file (which is where MyStuff gets program info).

It's in a fairly early stage, but it works, and as of now I have 14 days visibility in MyStuff, with nearly complete program descriptions. Program descriptions would be entirely complete, but we've had to cap them at 250 characters, as that is all there is room for in the current version of MyStuff Wink. (BobD is looking at a fix to "make space".) Some of the XMLTV descriptions run to over 1200 characters.

If there is enough interest from the MyStuff users, we could go on to develop this. The idea we had, was for it to sit in parallel, with a menu option in MyStuff to use MyStuff_Extended_Info if it was less than a certain age (let's say 4 days). If it was any older than this, then MyStuff could default to using Jag's file - which is (I guess for most users) recreated and updated automatically on a daily basis. Use of Jag's .CSV would, of course restrict access to the "enhanced" program info.

BobD pointed out some pros and cons to me:

ADVANTAGES
1) Complete descriptions. This will only be an advantage until the Toppy (or Jag) sort this out, this is therefore a short term fix - I noticed that Jag posted today, and confirmed that he is planning this fix in his next release.

2) More info - eg program genre, and anything else we decide to pull down from XMLTV. XMLTV also has ratings for films (4/5, 3/5 etc etc), as well as episode numbers for some serials, and other interesting stuff like BBFC classifications. All these could potentially be sucked into MyStuff. Some of these may also come available in future versions of Toppy firmware / Jags updates, but probably not to the same level of detail as is available through XMLTV.

3) 14 days of program info (with all the info associated above). This will almost certainly NEVER be available in Toppy/Jags.

DISADVANTAGES

1) The file needs to be created on PC - downloaded to PC via XMLTV, formatted using the tool I created, and then loaded onto Toppy. This would need to happen every 3 or 4 days (to maintain up to date program info, and to keep the horizon as far out as possible).

At this stage, we're looking for feedback from the MyStuff community. Does this look like an interesting project?? Would anyone like to comment??

BB


Last edited by Bawbagg on Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark_B
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:46 am Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 254
End result of 14ds info, with extended descriptions and genre - excellent. What we all want.

I'm just not disciplined enough to be downloading file every two to three days.

OTA yes - or some more automatic process - then I'm sold. Otherwise tend to prefer to treat toppy as somethinga little more stand alone and to see what comes in with genre in next firmware and seek to exploit that.

You mention Jags is moving to extended info in next release - does that imply maybe that the tap api are providing more info?

As that's only weeks off it may be worth a wait and see approach before jumping in?

I agree your aim of keeping the complete programme info of the std toppy info box, and had asked whether Bob could find a way to say on third i press go to the std info box for these occasions.

I'm sure others are more disciplined and would support this - and the idea of having it along side means that those that need will use.

EDIT: 9 January 2006 .....how wrong can you be! - essential interface that really lets releases new capabilities of having full 14-days, content rich epg data. A must have interface -well worth the 4-5 minutes every 10 days or so......now brough alive with MyStuff and MeiSearch.... Try it!


Last edited by Mark_B on Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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HydeTheDarkerSide
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:30 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 5956 Location: Hannington Transmitter : Sony KDL 40Z5800
I can't help feeling that this would be aimed more at your Digiguide style Jag's user, owing to the need to update files manually.

I can live with the word search feature of jag's for setting unattended timers. I also use the Radio Times web site for checking when program clashes might be resolved by looking for repeats beyond the 7 day epg, or within 7 days but on a subordinate channel. I have a laptop in the lounge which makes this process a more simple one than it first appears.

Sorry Sad

Let's hope more support comes along soon. Smile

_________________
Hyde.
[size=10:da1fd20a33][b:da1fd20a33]2x TF5800 All controlled with Harmony Ultimate [/b:da1fd20a33], TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -RSy+BmC0CbCfCtDsEgEmEvFsGIMPePsR0ScUUuWfXZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.3; EPG2MEI v0.96; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MyInfo B5.6; MyStuff 6.5 RC2;
[color=blue:da1fd20a33]MyStuff Links: http://www.toppy.org.uk/~mystuff/index.shtml[/color:da1fd20a33]
Sig generated by MyInfo on 11/10/13[/size:da1fd20a33]
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dedics
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:37 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 07 Aug 2005 Posts: 310
I was thinking of trying to get the programme info from radio times into the toppy somehow? not sure how yet, in a similar fashion to dgtojags I suppose, (any ideas?) I'm not a programmer, but I really like my-stuff (Thanks for all you hard work BobD) and am frustrated by the lack of extended info.

Where is the all singing and dancing UK IP grid style guide? (I for one can't wait!)

Razz
dedics
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kidhazy
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:58 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 29 May 2005 Posts: 372 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Just my 2 cents worth based on the OZ experiences with XLMTV grabbers/loaders before you guys go charging forward:

1. In OZ we went down the XMLTV grabber path and it has been very, very successful and providing (in our case) 7 day EPGs. Our broadcasters only provide now/next over the air.

2. There have been numerous routines written to automatically run the PC side of the grabber from various sources, so you typically have them setup to run daily or weekly and automatically upload the data to the Toppy.

3. Our PC apps convert the XMLTV data into a fixed text format that is then uploaded to the Toppy, and the EPGLoader TAP converts it from text and loads it directly into the Toppy EPG data tables.

4. Given Bawbagg has already converted XMLTV into JAGs format it may not be too big a step to convert the data into the format that EPGLoader can use. (Though I'm not sure EPGloader runs on the 5800)

5. If you manage to get the data and EPGLoader working, then any TAP (or standard Toppy functions) will have full access to the 14 days worth of EPG data (as we have with our 7 days data). This includes JAGs EPG without having to do a JAG scan timer.

6. As it is our own PC & TAPs that end up loading the data into the Toppy we can format it how we want it, and load it how we want it loaded. So in OZ, we load a short description in the Toppy Short Description field (Keeping it < 255 so the TAP API doesn't chop it off) and then all the extended data (eg. actors, repeat flags, etc) we put into the Toppy Extended Info field which can contain 1000's of characters and the TAPs have full access to. (eg. Surfer can page through multiple pages of Extended Info data using the Info button).

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Wildoat
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:25 am Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 18 Apr 2005 Posts: 532 Location: Diss / Tacolneston Transmitter
For me unless I can automate I would probably live with what I have got. Everytime I do a tap/firmware update I have to get the laptop out and its unlikly I would do this on a reqular basis for EPG data.

W

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Bawbagg
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:29 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 11 Aug 2005 Posts: 1122
Mark_B wrote:
End result of 14ds info, with extended descriptions and genre - excellent. What we all want.

I'm just not disciplined enough to be downloading file every two to three days.
I suspected this. Which is why I came out to the community before crashing onwards. Unless you are fortunate to have an NSLU2 hooked up, then this is a manual process.

Mark_B wrote:
You mention Jags is moving to extended info in next release - does that imply maybe that the tap api are providing more info?
Dunno - I just read Jag's most recent post in his thread: http://www.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=549

Dedics wrote:
I was thinking of trying to get the programme info from radio times into the toppy somehow? not sure how yet, in a similar fashion to dgtojags I suppose, (any ideas?)
That's exactly what MyStuff_Extended_Info does: I extract the Radio Times XMLTV info, and format it to look like Jag's EPG created it. Substituting my file instead of Jag's file on your Toppy means MyStuff can load a full 14 day guide with (potential for) full description (if BobD makes some screen space available).

kidhazy wrote:
Our PC apps convert the XMLTV data into a fixed text format that is then uploaded to the Toppy, and the EPGLoader TAP converts it from text and loads it directly into the Toppy EPG data tables.
This would be absolutely the best method, however I understand that the Toppy only has 512k of space for EPG data. As EPG Uploader uses the Toppy space, then there won't be sufficient room in the Toppy's own system for all the data we can provide via XMLTV. This is precisely why we need another method to store the extendded info, and a specific TAP to display it.

That said, I do believe it is possible to use EPG Uploader with a 5800, although it's never really taken off here as we are in the fortunate position of having 7 days EPG broadcast to us (since earlier this year). Jag's does a fairly good job of harvesting this (as one of the Toppy's own major shortcomings is not having the capability to contiuously scan & store using a spare tuner). The only drawback for us, is that the EPG broadcast does not have a separate short & long description. Everything is stuffed in the short description, and the Toppy API only retrieves a limited number of characters for TAPs to access. Jags, Improbox and Surfer all show truncated program descriptions - pressing info in Surfer yields "No extended information".

Wildoat wrote:
For me unless I can automate I would probably live with what I have got. Everytime I do a tap/firmware update I have to get the laptop out and its unlikly I would do this on a reqular basis for EPG data.
Seems to sum it up nicely - I thought more people might have been interested in capability to have 14 days for manual timer setting. (to cover holidays and the like).

I'll keep the project on the back burner for the time being.

BB
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oyster
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:35 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 3
kidhazy wrote:
...I'm not sure EPGloader runs on the 5800...


EPGLoader run fine on my 5800, and I use XMLTV/NickC's perl script (thanks NickC) to keep my EPG populated with EPGLoader.

However, I would still however be very interested in importing EPG data into JAG's/MyStuff. The problem with EPGLoader being that it populates the standard EPG, and that only has space for around three days worth of EPG for the channels I want to populate. Beyond three days, the EPG shows times only, no names, short nor long info, which is irritating.

A full seven or even 14-day EPG would be fantastic!!

BawBagg, please, please, please continue (and post the source, so NickC can port it to Linux Wink )
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kidhazy
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:04 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 29 May 2005 Posts: 372 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Bawbagg wrote:
the EPG broadcast does not have a separate short & long description. Everything is stuffed in the short description, and the Toppy API only retrieves a limited number of characters for TAPs to access. Jags, Improbox and Surfer all show truncated program descriptions - pressing info in Surfer yields "No extended information".


Correct - that's why you need the PC/EPGLoader combo to get this stuff into the Toppy Extended Info fields, or no TAP will have easy, full access to the extra info.

As an example


Shows the Short Description as "[COmedy][G]" the rest of the text (including actors, etc) comes from the extended information (note the smaller font)

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Bawbagg
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:00 am Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 11 Aug 2005 Posts: 1122
Yes... all agreed.

But - as I understand it (from examining the TED stuff) you only have 12 channels or so???

Here we have over 50, if we fully populate the toppy EPG for all our channels, we max out the Toppy EPG space (believed to be 512kb), and end up with only 3 days of program info (as oyster points out).

That is why I believe we need the guide information stored in a separate file, and then a tap (like MyStuff) to access it.

BB
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AndyD
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:01 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 02 Oct 2005 Posts: 102
I think it would be great to use the xmltv stuff.

The ultimate is for MyStuff to be adapted to be a full EPG with a grid stylee (like Sky's)......now that would be wll uber ! The text size etc in MyStuff is spot on Smile
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dangerousdave
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:32 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 14 Oct 2005 Posts: 12 Location: Esher
Bawbagg wrote:
<SNIP>Everything is stuffed in the short description, and the Toppy API only retrieves a limited number of characters for TAPs to access. Jags, Improbox and Surfer all show truncated program descriptions - pressing info in Surfer yields "No extended information".


I've been playing with a now/next tap myself. I thought I was doing something wrong! Smile Does anyone know if this is likely to be fixed soon? I've looked at the "Bugs" section of this website, but couldn't see any Tap-related bugs. Is there a special buglist for problems relating to the API?

Cheers,

DangerousDave
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chunkywizard
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:59 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 13 May 2005 Posts: 9319 Location: Sindlesham, Berkshire Tx: Hannington
Hi Dave,

its not really a bug, its a limitation, I believe it is down as a feature request. I think some people are also looking at a firmware hack to provide this as well.

Cheers

Chunkywizard

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dangerousdave
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:26 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 14 Oct 2005 Posts: 12 Location: Esher
Thanks chunkywizard!

Please don't think I'm looking to start bug/limitation flame, but... Razz

The spec says (for TAP_GetEvent):
"It gets all the event information of the specified channel."

This leads me to believe that all the info broadcast will be supplied. I'm not sure what the DVB spec defines as the maximum discription length (if any). Even so, not providing all the information is a deviation from the API spec, which to me sounds like a bug.

Of course, as you mention, the struct in taps.h is:
Code:
char    description[128];

Which isn't the biggest string in the world Razz

Ultimately, I put it down to a lax specification, and won't lose too much sleep over the missing characters, but I still think that it's a bug Very Happy

Hope you have a good weekend, and thanks for the quick response Smile

Dave
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chunkywizard
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:42 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 13 May 2005 Posts: 9319 Location: Sindlesham, Berkshire Tx: Hannington
Hi Dave,

I hear what your saying, I was only reciting Toppy.org party line, see: Existing feature change, no 65 - API returns truncated programme description Laughing

Anyway, we agree on one thing, it needs to change!

You have a good weekend as well and stay dangerous,

Cheers

Chunkywizard

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