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<  Firmwares, enhancements and upgrades  ~  SATA-IDE converters, working and non-working models

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ezhik
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:10 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 69
k0sh wrote:
This model worked fine with a 1tb Seagate drive.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12537

It took about 7-10 days to arrive from China and only cost 2.82 including delivery. Some uk suppliers charge more than that just for delivery!


I've also just installed this one, I used a 1TB Samsung F3 drive. The switch over went smoothly, I had to replace the IDE cable and used an 80pin cable. After snapping off the extra pin on the Toppy motherboard and fitting the cable the wrong way round I powered up and was presented with the option to format, which took about 30 seconds.

Took my time getting all TAPS back on and setup how I like it, then did a recording/pause live TV test etc, and all is good.

I was worried the top might not close after reading this thread, but I had no problem, the lid went down and didn't touch the SATA adapter, though I did put a little bit of packing between the adapter pcb and the back edge of the HDD, it looked too close there.

Anyone else considering using this DealXtreme adapter I can report complete success with the the Samsung F3.

_________________
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; TAP Commander 1.34; Font Manager 1.0d; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.3; MHEG On/Off A3;
TF5800t, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +EvEzPeUUu
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; TAP Commander 1.34; Font Manager 1.0d; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.3; MHEG On/Off A3; (FastScanGUI v0.6b);
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billmars
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:21 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 761
ezhik wrote:
After snapping off the extra pin on the Toppy motherboard

If anyone else is reading this and following these instructions, it's much safer to make the hole in the data cable connector....

_________________
BM
Firmware
5800 Samsung 1Tb Autostart TAPs: Extend 1.7;TSRCommander 1.5;TF5000 Display 1.53;EPG2MEI 0.95;MyStuff 6.6;QuickJump 1.72;Power Down 0.75;SecCache 0.4;TSSaver 0.4;MHEG Control B2;eit_sub_sng 0.6 Transmitter: Belmont Extras: as2mei (via NSLU2)
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ezhik
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:13 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 69
billmars wrote:
ezhik wrote:
After snapping off the extra pin on the Toppy motherboard

If anyone else is reading this and following these instructions, it's much safer to make the hole in the data cable connector....


billmars is right, I did it that way because I'm used to working with electronic circuits, PCBs etc and have suitable skills and tools, but I didn't mean to suggest that anyone else should. It really is much safer for those of you who don't do this kind of work regularly to drill out the connector.

The main point was that the cheap adapter from DealXtreme does the trick, and the Toppy lid goes back down.

_________________
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; TAP Commander 1.34; Font Manager 1.0d; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.3; MHEG On/Off A3;
TF5800t, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +EvEzPeUUu
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; TAP Commander 1.34; Font Manager 1.0d; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.3; MHEG On/Off A3; (FastScanGUI v0.6b);
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Bob_Swede
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:43 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 1066 Location: Sweden
Good, I have updated the initial post of this thread now.

_________________
Bo B (Sweden)
5700HDMIPVRt, TS On, F/W: patches (3.17 aka 5.14.77)
TAPs: TF5000 Display v1.53; ChannelChangeButtonHack 1.1; MyStuff 6.4; TAP Cmder 1.34; MyInfo B5.4;
(EPG: XMLTV2Mei for Win + MyStuff)
(Toppy access: ASUS WL-500g-P FTP installed using chunkywizard's guide)
Sig partly gen. by MyInfo on 12/4/2013
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pol098
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:54 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 05 Jul 2009 Posts: 36
Whil I haven't (yet) replaced the HDD in my PVR5800 or even opened the box, I have noticed that a lot of IDE==>SATA converters are reported to be electrically OK but have problems fitting in the space available. Also, connectors needing pin 20 drilling out are a nuisance.

I dom't know if this would solve or simplify the problem, but you can get an IDE male-to-female extension cable. I got one from an eBay seller for another purpose; it is 3cm long (just over 1 inch), and I asked him to omit pin 20 (I think it's 20?) from the male connector (so no drilling, ever). eBay price is 5 delivered (more expensive than the cheapest IDE==>SATA converter!); the seller says that he can make up cables to order if 3cm is not right (it's easy enough to do, but you need to buy 2 connectors and have an IDC connector punch - I prefer to pay). I searched eBay for
ide cable male -sata
Item heading is "IDE HARD DISK DRIVE CABLE 40-PIN MALE TO FEMALE 40-WAY".
eBay seller is "amigakit_dot_com" (with underlines). I've sent him a message in case there's any Topfield interest - he might be interested in making a version optimised for TF58*0.

I'd be interested to hear if this helps with conversion, for when I decide to do it.

Best wishes, pol098
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ezhik
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:24 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 69
pol098 wrote:
Whil I haven't (yet) replaced the HDD in my PVR5800 or even opened the box, I have noticed that a lot of IDE==>SATA converters are reported to be electrically OK but have problems fitting in the space available. Also, connectors needing pin 20 drilling out are a nuisance.

I dom't know if this would solve or simplify the problem, but you can get an IDE male-to-female extension cable. I got one from an eBay seller for another purpose; it is 3cm long (just over 1 inch), and I asked him to omit pin 20 (I think it's 20?) from the male connector (so no drilling, ever). eBay price is 5 delivered (more expensive than the cheapest IDE==>SATA converter!); the seller says that he can make up cables to order if 3cm is not right (it's easy enough to do, but you need to buy 2 connectors and have an IDC connector punch - I prefer to pay). I searched eBay for
ide cable male -sata
Item heading is "IDE HARD DISK DRIVE CABLE 40-PIN MALE TO FEMALE 40-WAY".
eBay seller is "amigakit_dot_com" (with underlines). I've sent him a message in case there's any Topfield interest - he might be interested in making a version optimised for TF58*0.

I'd be interested to hear if this helps with conversion, for when I decide to do it.

Best wishes, pol098


If he is able to make up cables then instead of making an extension cable as you describe, it might be better to get him to make you a cable tailor made for this mod. An 80 wire cable, say 15cm long with a normal plug one end and the other with all pins open would do.

Whether it would work though is another matter, as with the adapter I used it only works with the cable connected one way round, and thats with the end normally plugged into the drive being plugged into to the Toppy mainboard. So there is something else going on, at least with this one type of adapter, that might effect extenders or custom made cables.

Good idea though to get around what to do about the extra pin on the mainboard.

_________________
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; TAP Commander 1.34; Font Manager 1.0d; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.3; MHEG On/Off A3;
TF5800t, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +EvEzPeUUu
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; TAP Commander 1.34; Font Manager 1.0d; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.3; MHEG On/Off A3; (FastScanGUI v0.6b);
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Bob_Swede
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:11 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 1066 Location: Sweden
ezhik wrote:

Whether it would work though is another matter, as with the adapter I used it only works with the cable connected one way round, and that's with the end normally plugged into the drive being plugged into to the Toppy main board. So there is something else going on, at least with this one type of adapter, that might effect extenders or custom made cables.

Good idea though to get around what to do about the extra pin on the mainboard.

The 80-wire ATA cable uses a special connector to connect together every other wire into the same circuit and connecting that to the pins that are intended as shield ground.
I suspect that the Toppy MB does not hook up the correct way for this to work, but the drives do. That is probably why it works to reverse the connection.
I have located a Wikipedia description of the 80-wire ATA connector where you can see how it works...

_________________
Bo B (Sweden)
5700HDMIPVRt, TS On, F/W: patches (3.17 aka 5.14.77)
TAPs: TF5000 Display v1.53; ChannelChangeButtonHack 1.1; MyStuff 6.4; TAP Cmder 1.34; MyInfo B5.4;
(EPG: XMLTV2Mei for Win + MyStuff)
(Toppy access: ASUS WL-500g-P FTP installed using chunkywizard's guide)
Sig partly gen. by MyInfo on 12/4/2013
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ezhik
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:29 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 69
Bob_Swede wrote:
ezhik wrote:

Whether it would work though is another matter, as with the adapter I used it only works with the cable connected one way round, and that's with the end normally plugged into the drive being plugged into to the Toppy main board. So there is something else going on, at least with this one type of adapter, that might effect extenders or custom made cables.

Good idea though to get around what to do about the extra pin on the mainboard.

The 80-wire ATA cable uses a special connector to connect together every other wire into the same circuit and connecting that to the pins that are intended as shield ground.
I suspect that the Toppy MB does not hook up the correct way for this to work, but the drives do. That is probably why it works to reverse the connection.
I have located a Wikipedia description of the 80-wire ATA connector where you can see how it works...


Thank you for the explanation and link, makes sense now. I've never looked into this before. So does that mean the blue plug has some internal connections inside the moulding? If so could they be damaged by drilling out the blanked off pin hole, maybe if the hole was too deep?

In any case the working the 'wrong way round' only now make sense. All things considered I'm just glad it is working. I may do the same upgrade for my folks who also have a 5800.

_________________
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; TAP Commander 1.34; Font Manager 1.0d; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.3; MHEG On/Off A3;
TF5800t, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +EvEzPeUUu
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; TAP Commander 1.34; Font Manager 1.0d; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.3; MHEG On/Off A3; (FastScanGUI v0.6b);
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pol098
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:27 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 05 Jul 2009 Posts: 36
I mentioned a short male-to-female cable as a possibility a few posts back, and mentioned a possible source. A response:
[quote="ezhik"]If he is able to make up cables then instead of making an extension cable as you describe, it might be better to get him to make you a cable tailor made for this mod. An 80 wire cable, say 15cm long with a normal plug one end and the other with all pins open would do.[/quote]

I've sent a message to the seller who has replied: "Please advise the forum that we can look at supplying a custom cable for this application through our webstore. Please email us the suggestion for the cable: technical@amigakit.com"

I think the cable supplied is 40-wire; I don't know whether seller can make 80-wire cable. It would require some experimentation if 40-pin extension doesn't work. If I had a female connector with a filled-in hole 20, rather than drilling holes in it I'd look at cutting pin 20 off the Topfield male connector unless there's some reason not to - should be easier unless it's positioned to make this difficult. Not a good idea for a machine in warranty though.

Best wishes, pol098
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Bob_Swede
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:42 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 1066 Location: Sweden
The reason for discouraging cutting the pin off the toppy header is that it is irreversible. If you by accident cut the wrong pin you are in big trouble!
There are several reasons that can happen:
- Simple mis-counting
- Counting from the wrong end
- Cutting the pin in the wrong pin row
- Not knowing the exact number to cut
If you make a mistake on the connector drilling it is not going to be one of the above because there is just one place to drill, instead it "may" be a case where you drill too deep and cut a wire in the cable. But in my experience the plastic covering the pin position is not very thick. Only about a millimeter or so, so it is very easy to drill out even with a pointed knife or scalpel perhaps.
And the worst you have done then is destroying a cable worth maybe 2-3 or so...

_________________
Bo B (Sweden)
5700HDMIPVRt, TS On, F/W: patches (3.17 aka 5.14.77)
TAPs: TF5000 Display v1.53; ChannelChangeButtonHack 1.1; MyStuff 6.4; TAP Cmder 1.34; MyInfo B5.4;
(EPG: XMLTV2Mei for Win + MyStuff)
(Toppy access: ASUS WL-500g-P FTP installed using chunkywizard's guide)
Sig partly gen. by MyInfo on 12/4/2013
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jumbo
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:43 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 11 Apr 2005 Posts: 4731
Bob_Swede wrote:
The reason for discouraging cutting the pin off the toppy header is that it is irreversible.
...and there is no advantage in doing so whatsoever and it is actually more difficult than "poking" a hole in the cable end. Breaking the pin is purely and simply, dumb! To be honest talking about it is equally dumb Embarassed
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ezhik
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:22 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 69
k0sh wrote:
Just a warning before anybody goes out and buys the dealextreme adapter.
It stands a little proud above the disk with the cable attached.

It all works fine when the disk and caddy are loosely connected, but when I put the lid back on it I have to push down to fix the screws and then the hard drive stops working.


Is yours the 'facelift' version? The reason I ask is because I just took one apart to replace the PSU caps and it had a different disk caddy to mine. This one had some rubber dampers on the caddy that lifted the HDD by 3mm or so, probably enough to cause the problem you describe.

My Toppy doesn't have these dampers so it sits a bit lower, hence the lid went down without fouling the adapter.

Worth considering before going ahead with this one.

_________________
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; TAP Commander 1.34; Font Manager 1.0d; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.3; MHEG On/Off A3;
TF5800t, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +EvEzPeUUu
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; TAP Commander 1.34; Font Manager 1.0d; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.3; MHEG On/Off A3; (FastScanGUI v0.6b);
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charlesb
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:48 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 34
I happened to be in my local PCWorld (Just perusing mind, I almost never buy there as it's normally overpriced), I came across the following Dynamode Adaptor:

http://tinyurl.com/ybh69ar



It appears to attach to the Motherboard. Interestingly it has 2 Sata ports and comes with both Sata Power and Data Leads....

Could be an interesting option - that is if someone was prepared to take a 6.99 punt - free delivery for web orders too!
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DX
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:08 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Posts: 2695
charlesb wrote:
I happened to be in my local PCWorld

I bought one of these around a month or so ago. They are bi-directional (i.e. sata motherboard -> ide drive or ide motherboard -> sata drive) hence the two sata connections. I'm pleased with it but as I fitted it in a PC not a Toppy I can't comment on suitability for Toppy upgrades.
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alan_m
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:20 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3523
DX wrote:
charlesb wrote:
I happened to be in my local PCWorld

I bought one of these around a month or so ago. They are bi-directional (i.e. sata motherboard -> ide drive or ide motherboard -> sata drive) hence the two sata connections. I'm pleased with it but as I fitted it in a PC not a Toppy I can't comment on suitability for Toppy upgrades.


It wouln't fit in a 5800. The motherboard header is under the disk caddy with little spare headroom. See photos 4 and 5 in
http://www.smithdom.force9.co.uk/toppy/

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Ex Toppy 5800 user - now migrated to Extrend ET10000 Enigma 2 box with 2 terrestrial and 2 satellite tuners
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