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Grunta
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:52 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 88 Location: Kiwi living in Melbourne Oz
I agree with "underquark" .......why would you want to ??
3.5" would be close to 1/2 the price

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grunta....... [from OZ] Laughing ..... pvrt5000, caddy with 2x 300 gig drives, and a few TAPs,networked Beyonwiz
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rsocon
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:55 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 13 Jul 2006 Posts: 34 Location: Bristol
My reason for asking was mainly to do with reducing power consumption, and heat, and noise.

For about 45 I could get a 250GB 2.5in SATA, or a 500GB 3.5in SATA. I've still got the original Seagate drive and its starting to make more niose than I remember.

I've never filled the 160GB drive so space isn't really an issue, and the 2.5in in full read/write mode pulls around 10w less than the current seagate drive.

I've not decided what way to go yet and was simply testing the water to see what thoughts there are. There isn't much difference in the noise and power of the newer samsung drives and a 2.5in so I may just go for a smaller cheaper samsung one.

The Toppy seems picky with what drives it'll work with, thought it may not complain so much with a lower powered 2.5in drive.
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Bob_Swede
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:03 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 1066 Location: Sweden
twin_decks wrote:
Report on 1TB Upgrade project on my early model Toppy.
(Which had 160Gb Samsung from April 2005)

I've fitted :
Samsung Spinpoint F1 HD103UJ (87 inc vat&pp, Novatech)
IDE to SATA Converter (18 inc vat&pp, Span, Span IDE-SATA01)

Results :
Really straight forward after reading the excellent notes on these forums.
New Samsung formatted by Toppy to 1000GB (ish).
Copied 160Gb from original HDD and can replay all programs with no problems.
Runs much quieter than original (Samsung), even when recording 2 programs and replaying a 3rd.
Runs cooler than original.
I've had no issues in 24h.

Key notes Idea :
Don't forget to 'Run as Administrator' when using TopfHDRW and Vista.
Make sure IDE cable is reversed (connect computer/blue end to the SATA converter)


Can you/someone expand on the IDE cable note?
I have a 1Tb Samsung EcoGreen SATA, which I connect through an adapter that looks pretty much like the one you used and still I cannot get the Toppy to recognize it. It simply does no longer recognize the remote keypresses except for the power key. Sad
I have used the original short cable in the Toppy (without turning it around) and also an ASUS 80-pole cable with the same dismal result.
In the ASUS case I drilled a hole in the blue connector so it would fit on the Toppy MB.
Do you think I will get different results if I switch ends so that the blue end goes into the SATA/IDE converter and the disk end goes into the motherboard connector?


Quote:
Samsung HD103UJ has a lower power footprint that the original Samsung and equiv. to the 750GB.
I could not get SMART to work using HDDInfoTap, need to investigate.
I have not enabled Accoustic Management yet, it was very quiet without a change from default.
Service from Span was great. I ordered on Wed PM, paid 8 for delivery and received Thursday AM.
Testing is only with MyStuff TAP, the latest version meets most of my needs.

Now I can fill the disk up with Noddy, PeppaPig, BottleTopBill etc. and still have a couple of hours left over for Films Very Happy

I'd like to do that too.....

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Bo B (Sweden)
5700HDMIPVRt, TS On, F/W: patches (3.17 aka 5.14.77)
TAPs: TF5000 Display v1.53; ChannelChangeButtonHack 1.1; MyStuff 6.4; TAP Cmder 1.34; MyInfo B5.4;
(EPG: XMLTV2Mei for Win + MyStuff)
(Toppy access: ASUS WL-500g-P FTP installed using chunkywizard's guide)
Sig partly gen. by MyInfo on 12/4/2013
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aekostas
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:37 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 20 Jun 2007 Posts: 231 Location: Craigkelly Tx
Bob_Swede wrote:
twin_decks wrote:
Make sure IDE cable is reversed (connect computer/blue end to the SATA converter)

Can you/someone expand on the IDE cable note?
I have a 1Tb Samsung EcoGreen SATA, which I connect through an adapter that looks pretty much like the one you used and still I cannot get the Toppy to recognize it. It simply does no longer recognize the remote keypresses except for the power key. Sad
I have used the original short cable in the Toppy (without turning it around) and also an ASUS 80-pole cable with the same dismal result.
In the ASUS case I drilled a hole in the blue connector so it would fit on the Toppy MB.
Do you think I will get different results if I switch ends so that the blue end goes into the SATA/IDE converter and the disk end goes into the motherboard connector?


I never bothered with the SATA disks because of the hassle I thought would b involved. Still, I read the note to mean that yes, you will get the right results if you invert the cable.

Also, is the HDD the HD103UJ? If yes, then it is known to *not* work with the Span IDE-SATA01 (Marvell 88SA8040 chip) connector. Check out http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pMrFYHhlS3hgA4s1-IRIYSw

HTH!

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Hardware: TF5800PVR "Black Panther" with WD500AVJB, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -FmSy
TAPs: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; Extend v1.7; TF5000 Display v1.53; MHEG On/Off A3; SecCache (UK) v0.4; MyStuff 6.4; MyInfo B5.6;
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Bob_Swede
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:43 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 1066 Location: Sweden
I switched ends of the IDE cable (had to drill another hole) and now the Toppy recognizes the drive. Smile

My drive is a HD103SI (the 1Tb EcoGreen F2).

Anyway, I am good now. Smile

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Bo B (Sweden)
5700HDMIPVRt, TS On, F/W: patches (3.17 aka 5.14.77)
TAPs: TF5000 Display v1.53; ChannelChangeButtonHack 1.1; MyStuff 6.4; TAP Cmder 1.34; MyInfo B5.4;
(EPG: XMLTV2Mei for Win + MyStuff)
(Toppy access: ASUS WL-500g-P FTP installed using chunkywizard's guide)
Sig partly gen. by MyInfo on 12/4/2013
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Bob_Swede
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:52 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 1066 Location: Sweden
aekostas wrote:

Also, is the HDD the HD103UJ? If yes, then it is known to *not* work with the Span IDE-SATA01 (Marvell 88SA8040 chip) connector. Check out http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pMrFYHhlS3hgA4s1-IRIYSw

I'd like to add a working combination to this list:

Toppy model: TF5700PVRt
Disk drive: Samsung EcoGreen F2 1 Tb SATA HD103SI
SATA adapter: DeLock converter SATA/IDE (looks like the SPAN one)
IDE cable: ASUS 80-line

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Bo B (Sweden)
5700HDMIPVRt, TS On, F/W: patches (3.17 aka 5.14.77)
TAPs: TF5000 Display v1.53; ChannelChangeButtonHack 1.1; MyStuff 6.4; TAP Cmder 1.34; MyInfo B5.4;
(EPG: XMLTV2Mei for Win + MyStuff)
(Toppy access: ASUS WL-500g-P FTP installed using chunkywizard's guide)
Sig partly gen. by MyInfo on 12/4/2013
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jumbo
Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:34 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 11 Apr 2005 Posts: 4731
Good job, Bob! So after following the instructions correctly, you've now got one of the "coolest" drives around Cool Phewwwww, relief! (I was beginning to feel a bit guilty recommending the new Samsumg drive).
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Bob_Swede
Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:40 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 1066 Location: Sweden
jumbo wrote:
Good job, Bob! So after following the instructions correctly, you've now got one of the "coolest" drives around Cool Phewwwww, relief! (I was beginning to feel a bit guilty recommending the new Samsumg drive).

I'm happy too, because I got it finished with about 30 hours margin before leaving home for the summer cottage vacation, bringing the toppy along.
Now I can record the extra shows without having to view and erase them constantly to make room for the next in line. Smile
Thanks for your help!

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Bo B (Sweden)
5700HDMIPVRt, TS On, F/W: patches (3.17 aka 5.14.77)
TAPs: TF5000 Display v1.53; ChannelChangeButtonHack 1.1; MyStuff 6.4; TAP Cmder 1.34; MyInfo B5.4;
(EPG: XMLTV2Mei for Win + MyStuff)
(Toppy access: ASUS WL-500g-P FTP installed using chunkywizard's guide)
Sig partly gen. by MyInfo on 12/4/2013
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Valiant
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:07 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 19 May 2008 Posts: 296
My 500GB drive started failing a few weeks ago after 15 months service, so after being assured by Turbosat support that they would just put the same drive type back in I decided to upgrade and abandon the warranty. The failed drive was 60% filled with stuff I wanted to keep there so a bigger one was the only answer (as it is to lots of other questions as well - watch Home Improvement to see what I mean).

I chose the 1TB Samsung HD103SI EcoGreen F2 as it runs at a slower speed (fast disk is not a requirement in the Toppy environment as it never really has to do a lot) and is therefore cooler, and is bigger o'course Cool. I had sometimes worried about the temperature the box was reaching prior to the failure as it was not always in standby when not in use and got pretty hot.

I ordered a SATA Power Cable and a Newlink IDE to SATA & SATA to IDE Bi-Directional Adapter.The adapter comes with a SATA data cable and a power cable with both male and female Molex connectors and a small connector to provide power to the adapter itself.

http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Peripherals/Connectors/NewLink+Bi-Directional+SATA+-+IDE+Adapter+?productId=36067

The adaptor has the Marvel chipset and justs sits on the Toppy MB IDE connector and is very compact.

The cables all connect up nicely with plenty of slack so there is no jiggery-pokery with resiting the HDD, modifying brackets, or modifying/stretching cables to make them fit.

The only thing I had to do was drill out a hole on the IDE part of the adapter to accomodate all the Toppy pins.

I switched the adapter to Host and turned on the Toppy. The set up menu appeared and I formatted the drive which took about 10 seconds. I then put the cover back on and reloaded software and data files. From the delivery of the Hard Disk to having a running Toppy took about a half hour.

The Toppy has been running for a week now doing its normal job. I don't have timeshifting or interactive switched on as I rarely watch live tv and I try and keep the Toppy in standby as much as possible. The Toppy is running much cooler now anyway. The drive is also very quiet - only chugging for about 10 seconds when coming out of standby and after that I don't hear it at all. Well, fingers crossed Smile

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TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Fm+BmFsIPsUUuUxZ
TAPs: MyInfo B5.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; MyStuff 6.5; (EIT Sub v0.6 SnG);
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chris_s
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:30 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 23 May 2008 Posts: 403
@Valiant

As my 5810 is nominally the same age as yours, but is 96% full, could you elaborate on he problems that led you to the conclusion that the HDD was failing, so I can spot them early if mine starts to fail.

Chris.

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TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009
TAPs: QuickJump 1.72; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; QuickBlank 0.2; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MyInfo B5.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.5; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; MHEG On/Off A3; (Start Channel LCN);
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TV=Panasonic TX-32DT2 IDTV (32" CRT via CVBS-SCART), Tx: Sutton Coldfield. "My other PVR is a TiVo".
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Valiant
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:45 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 19 May 2008 Posts: 296
chris_s wrote:
@Valiant

As my 5810 is nominally the same age as yours, but is 96% full, could you elaborate on he problems that led you to the conclusion that the HDD was failing, so I can spot them early if mine starts to fail.

Chris.


The Toppy started to hang up when accessing the disk and the picture would freeze. A POFF/PON solved the problem temporarily. I emptied the autostart folder and reset the firmware to my pre Mystuff version (basically back to something I was more familiar with) and tried again. The toppy would start ok and all the archive was available for about half an hour after which the archive showed 0MB/0MB.

I suspected the disk but could not rule out the power supply so taking advice from the forum about component damage incurred through a failing power supply, I switched it off and put it back in its box ready for shipping back to Turbosat.

I then talked to Turbosat support (James) who confirmed that it was a hard disk problem being that it was a weak component in the 5810 and that it was unlikely to be the power supply as that was relatively stable in the 5810.

I then thought about it some more ..... and the rest is in my previous post.

Hope you don't need to do any of this, Chris, but if there is stuff in your 96% that you would find hard to replace then you might do well to off-line a copy to a cheap external storage device as insurance.

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TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Fm+BmFsIPsUUuUxZ
TAPs: MyInfo B5.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; MyStuff 6.5; (EIT Sub v0.6 SnG);
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R2-D2
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:41 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
Valiant wrote:
I then talked to Turbosat support (James) who confirmed that it was a hard disk problem being that it was a weak component in the 5810 and that it was unlikely to be the power supply as that was relatively stable in the 5810.
Does this mean that they've identified that the particular 500Gb disk they are using is not really appropriate? Or maybe is it just that it's prone to failure in the TF5810? (Due to the different case making the inside hotter?)

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simonc
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:03 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 5642 Location: Cheltenham
I'd have had the drive replaced and done the upgrade, giving me a spare 500GB drive Wink

I can't help thinking that no fan+case with no ventilation holes in the top=trouble in the long run regardless of disk model.
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Valiant
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:56 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 19 May 2008 Posts: 296
@R2-D2

James, the Turbosat support guy, said that they had had a lot of 5810 returns involving replacement of the hard disk and was quick to conclude drive failure rather than any other cause.

Whether there is a bad batch of drives as some have said or as simonc said, it is simply the casing design and cooling issue that needs to be addressed, James would not comment on though I did press him as I wanted him to suggest an alternative. In the end I felt that their solution would be unsatisfactory and plumped for the upgrade.

_________________
TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Fm+BmFsIPsUUuUxZ
TAPs: MyInfo B5.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; MyStuff 6.5; (EIT Sub v0.6 SnG);
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alan_m
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:22 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3523
Valiant wrote:
@R2-D2

Jit is simply the casing design and cooling issue that needs to be addressed,


Even in early days of my 5800 ownership I was concerned that the hard disk was close to its upper operational temperature and that is why I decided to fit a fan which brought down the disk temperature by around 10/15C. The 5810 case has fewer ventilation slots so the hard disk could be operating outside of its specification.

Now with a 'green' 1Tbyte drive my Toppy is running cooler than it did with the original 160G drive. I'm not sure that were too many (affordable) green disks around when the 5810 was launched into the market place but a fitting a green drive to a 5810 may solve some of the problems.

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