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R2-D2
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:51 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
mr-b wrote:
Any useful info in there?
It all looks OK (apart from the LCNs). Confused

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shenson
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:24 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 11 Apr 2005 Posts: 569
When this happened to me I did try another digibox which was being fed a much weaker signal and it had no problems coping on its automatic search.

It looks to me as though something (legitimate or otherwise) on Sutton Coldfield TX is confusing the toppy.

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R2-D2
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:38 am Reply with quote
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mr-b wrote:
I scanned ch 55 (mux D) and all the LCNs were >1000.
It occurs to me that one thing you could do (if you can still reproduce this now) is make a short recording from one of those channels on Mux D (a few minutes long) and then upload it somewhere so I can have a look at the contents. There's a SDT bug hidden somewhere which might be related, and that data should be in the recording, too.

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mr-b
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:08 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 643 Location: Warks - Sutton Coldfield tx
Cool. Mux D behaved itself in today's scan so here's one from Mux B, ch51. I've uploaded a min of In the Night Garden off CBeebies to:

http://rapidshare.de/files/39901514/In_the_Night_Garden.rec.html

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mr-b
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:24 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 643 Location: Warks - Sutton Coldfield tx
Does anyone think it's worth calling Topfield tech support on this issue? I'm guessing they're not going to be using the Sutton Coldfield tx ...

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R2-D2
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:35 pm Reply with quote
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mr-b wrote:
I've uploaded a min of In the Night Garden off CBeebies
Darn! I forgot that the relevant data is in the NIT not the SDT, and that's not recorded. Sad But I suppose it could be...

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R2-D2
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:20 pm Reply with quote
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If you're still having issues with a particular mux then [Rn] RecordNIT will add the NIT section to a recording, which may have some clues. You can apply this patch temporarily using HDFW's Use firmware in RAM option.

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nwhitfield
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:23 pm Reply with quote
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Sutton Coldfield is one of the transmitters with a split NIT, isn't it?

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R2-D2
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:44 pm Reply with quote
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nwhitfield wrote:
Sutton Coldfield is one of the transmitters with a split NIT, isn't it?
Is it? Ah... It would be good if someone can make a short (1min) recording from any channel from this transmitter then, regardless of whether they've had problems with a rescan.

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R2-D2
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:08 pm Reply with quote
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Hmm... the NIT section is, AFAICT, not CRC checked. Shocked

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mr-b
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:36 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 643 Location: Warks - Sutton Coldfield tx
Hi R2-D2

Here's a short (minor nit?) recording with the [Rn] patch applied:
http://rapidshare.de/files/39913402/Top_Gear-2.rec.html

Also earlier in the thread you suggested changing tuners - how would one do this exactly for the scan?
I plugged the aerial lead into Ant #2 socket and no signal was visible on the service scan page.

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R2-D2
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:32 pm Reply with quote
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mr-b wrote:
Here's a short (minor nit?) recording with the [Rn] patch applied
Ta! It is indeed a split NIT, spanning two sections. I'm checking the code, but I suspect the randomness of the failures are due to either the "wrong" section being picked up first (without proper LCNs), or it seeing both and they both contain the same LCN data.
Quote:
Also earlier in the thread you suggested changing tuners - how would one do this exactly for the scan?
Err... I don't know, but I'm fairly sure it can do this because I think you can run different signals into the tuners and it knows which one can see what. Maybe you'd need to kick-start it with one mux (with the aerial on both tuners), then use PiP and the sub-service list (which shows the tuners being used) to make the main service on a particular tuner, then start a manual scan of the other muxes with the aerial in just one tuner.

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R2-D2
Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:24 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12148
Can somebody who is having these problems have a crack at [Nf] NITFix, which can be applied temporarily using HDFW's Use firmware in RAM option. It should CRC check the NIT and allow it to span multiple sections, which should make the scanning process more robust.

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mr-b
Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:50 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 643 Location: Warks - Sutton Coldfield tx
Well I take my hat off to you sir. I applied the [Nf] patch and did 3 reset/full scans.
The channel list returned each time was perfect with no LCNs >=1000. Hurrah! Smile Smile

As an attempt to be slightly rigorous in testing, I then removed the patch, reset and scanned again and they were back!
I guess this is a definite candidate for the mandatory bug fix patch list. Smile

This fix has saved me so much frustration - I can't imagine the impact this 'bug' will be having. Sutton Coldfield does cover quite a large area of the Midlands ...

I dug up some more details about the transmitter change:
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitaltv/a97288/old-boxes-hit-by-west-mids-freeview-change.html
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=734449

Many tx again to you for analysing this and delivering a fix so unbelievably quickly. Topfield should be beating a path to your front door! Wink

(BTW I couldn't find any reference of this bug in the site list for 13.65 - is it a known issue?)

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R2-D2
Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:31 pm Reply with quote
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mr-b wrote:
I couldn't find any reference of this bug in the site list for 13.65 - is it a known issue?
I suspect the CRC issue is something that may (by itself) have caused issues in the past, but the split NIT (which is a new thing) looks like it would trip up all UK firmwares. A bit more investigation shows that they may have fixed in this is certain regions, notably the Finnish one. It's possibly the case (like some other issues) that the problem is known at Topfield but not rolled out to all firmwares.

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