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tichtich

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:12 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1375 Location: Bristol, UK

sunstealer wrote:

Pretty sure you hit the nail on the head there shenson. Darkmatter's art of the stab vs. rub / fumble / push etc.. is probably the only solution to this issue. Those using more TAPs may experience this problem more frequently due to more CPU cycle usage.

You may well be right. But I have experienced missed key presses even when testing with no TAPs and with slow, careful key presses.

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Richard Wein
Firmware: 5.13.65 (patched). Auto Start TAPs: TapCommander 1.0.2, Power Down 0.6, DescriptionExtender 2.2, mei2archive 3.8I3, Automove 1.8, QuickJump 1.54, Improbox 2.1RC8, Jag's EPG 3.0b3 (TV & radio), Media Manager 1.5, MHEG Control A2g, Extend 1.7. PC apps: DGtoTop 1.1. Profile last updated 13/05/2009

sunstealer

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:07 pm

Forum moderator Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 325

Sure, I think it will entirely depend on what the box happens to be doing at the time you press the remote key. There are many "housekeeping" functions that would take some of the processing time. The real solution to this problem would be to have an interrupt driven system or a keypress buffer running in a separate / protected time thread.

tichtich

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:50 am

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1375 Location: Bristol, UK

It seems like very poor design to use a polling system, if that's what they've done.

By the way, I had another one of these crashes last night, and I hadn't used the on-screen keyboard at all. That's three recordings I've lost in this way now, and I've upgraded my bug response to Essential.

tonalq

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:34 pm

Joined: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 3

nwhitfield wrote:

I'm not 100% convinced that this loss of keypresses is a distinct bug, as opposed to merely a minor manifestation of the on screen keyboard causing a reboot; in the latter case, there will be lots of keypresses in a short space of time, which may be why it appears to have a more severe effect, culminating in a reboot.

So, for the time being, unless anyone has any really concrete evidence to the contrary, I think we should consider it a more minor manifestation of the same issue, especially since in many cases here people have reported that they have been using the on-screen keyboard to rename.

Anyway, feedback here, please. The keyboard causing reboot bug has been added to the database as minor bug, 52, and I'll append a note to that indicating that there may be a related issue with keypresses appearing to be lost.

http://www.toppy.org.uk/services/bug_info.php?bid=52

Nigel.

I can confirm that although the system keyboard causing reboot bug is supposed to be fixed in the new firmware, there is still a problem with RC keypresses being ignored. The current BBCi MHEG bug that causes the Toppy to crash has led me to believe that there might be some connection with this bug. This is because the problem is non-existent when using a TAP while a channel is selected that is picking up no signal (I lose channel 5 on some days). On a channel that is broadcasting normally, the problem starts to occur by ignoring keypresses roughly alternately, and it gets gradually worse.

jook

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:13 pm

Regular contributor Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 99

I have timeshift on, run Jags EPG, Uk Timers, Powermanager, Improbox. I was watching a program which was also being recorded. I pressed pause and left it for 13 minutes. I then pressed play and the program resumed. Got to the commercial break and tried to fast forward. Noticed the toppy wouldn't respond to any more key presses. I did not use the on screen keyboard anywhere. I am using the patched august firmware.

Update: pressing info made improbox appear, but I couldn't navigate it. Pressing the standby button then asking me if I wanted to power down whilst the recording was still going on. I could then select no. Then I suddenly had the toppy responding to keypresses again!

mlavende

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:22 am

Frequent contributor Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 340

jook wrote:

I have had this exact same problem where getting responses to keypresses only occurs by hitting power and saying 'no' to 'really power down'. Definitely a problem with ignored keypresses. Sometimes as bad as 1 in 2 missed.

tichtich

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:25 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1375 Location: Bristol, UK

tonalq wrote:

I can confirm that although the system keyboard causing reboot bug is supposed to be fixed in the new firmware, there is still a problem with RC keypresses being ignored.

I agree. Moreover my initial impression (having upgraded to interim firmware straight from May firmware) is that it has got worse. I will keep this under observation.

I would like to see this issue added to the bug list as a separate item, since Bug id 52 ("On-screen keyboard can cause system reboot"), in which it was included, has now been marked as Resolved. Even if it is a design limitation rather than a bug, it is serious enough that it should be listed somewhere.

captain747480

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:02 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 499 Location: London Transmitter: Crystal Palace

mlavende wrote:

I have this problem when I'm tuned to a BBC channel and try to use the Archive to select a recording for playback.

I am assuming it is a hangover from the MHEG problem and will be fixed in the Final Firmware later this week.

I'll keep an eye on things.

Captain747480

nwhitfield

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:04 pm

Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 9473 Location: London

Response is certainly sluggish with the interim firmware, especially if you have TAPs loaded. I suspect that this will go away with the final fix.

If it doesn't, I shall certainly add a new bug entry to the database.

Nigel.

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Broadbandjockey

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:59 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 140 Location: Hampshire

nwhitfield wrote:

Loaded the new firmware on Sept 16th. All was well, then on Sept 18th I noticed remote key presses where getting sluggish.

Situation tonight is that most key presses are ignored. Even getting Toppy out of standby is an ordeal. Responce using the front panel buttons is instant. I noticed that the ignored key presses did NOT light the LED either. I have put brand new batteries in with no luck. A remote extender confirms the remote is certainly firing out commands, as the LED on that flashes with every key press.
I've tried a mains power cycle, also no improvement.

I don't think it can be any TAPs, because the problem still affects the box when trying to get it out of standby.

Any ideas ?

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TAPs: EPGNavigator v5.1c; UK Auto Scheduler 0.72; Quickjump 1.53; ImproBox 2.2; Bookmark 2uk 2.3a; UK Timers 1.2; Power Manager V1.1; Filer 2.15test; Description Extender V2.1: Firmware 5.13.65NITfix
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rayd

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:19 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 03 Jun 2005 Posts: 377 Location: West London

Try turning the power off for a minute and then back on again.

The sluggishness seems to be a cumulative thing as if memory is getting eaten away and the Toppy becomes more and more unresponsive. Depowering usually brings it back - for a while.

Cheers,

Ray D

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Broadbandjockey

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:39 am

Frequent contributor Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 140 Location: Hampshire

rayd wrote:

Thanks Ray, another factor which might now make this a false alarm (as far as the firmware is concerned) is that the batteries make poor contact inside the remote, I wedged a bit of cardboard under the cover, and the Toppy is now more responsive. My 'rough and ready' tester, the LED on my IR extender, does seem to be brighter.

It's early days yet, I'll see what happens next time my wife uses the box (she's the jinx that brings on the bugs Very Happy

)

Edit 08:41

Spoke too early, this morning Toppy is back to not responding again, remote is fine as far as I can tell, I'll try a 5 minute power down tonight

Shannock9

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:59 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 1060 Location: London, UK

Not sure if this should be a separate thread, but here goes.

Firmware 5.12.04, no TAPS. When we installed .04 I did not know of the need for a mains-off period, so the display always showed the clock (which I actually preferred). We had zero problems with this firmware, despite considerable use of the on-screen keyboard, however this forum warned me that I was on borrowed time so last evening I did the mains-off thing.

Now from habit we try to keep the TF live TV on Ch 5 as much as possible, to minimise BBCi impact (we never bother with standby). However last night it was left on BBC4 overnight, and changed back to Ch 5 when we woke up.

This morning (coincidence?) while watching a progam from the archive (not making any recordings) and using fast reverse the TF froze completely - picture frozen and no RC response. The rewinding had not reached the start of program. The standby button on the RC worked, and after a 'verifying files and folders' all seems OK. Same archive progam rewinds without trouble.

I'm picking up from this forum that a protective reboot every 24 hours would be good practice - although I hate powering electronics up and down on principle. So does this need to be 'mains-off' or is going to standby enough?

And is the BBCi thing claimed to be absolutely fixed, or is it just 'a lot better'?

Broadbandjockey

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:18 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 140 Location: Hampshire

Broadbandjockey wrote:

Another factor which might now make this a false alarm (as far as the firmware is concerned) is that the batteries make poor contact inside the remote, I wedged a bit of cardboard under the cover, and the Toppy is now more responsive. My 'rough and ready' tester, the LED on my IR extender, does seem to be brighter.

It's early days yet, I'll see what happens next time my wife uses the box (she's the jinx that brings on the bugs Very Happy

)

Edit 08:41

Spoke too early, this morning Toppy is back to not responding again, remote is fine as far as I can tell, I'll try a 5 minute power down tonight

Just done a 5 minute powerdown, and normal(ish) operation is restored, it is still rather sluggish though.

Is my problem widespread with other 5.12.04 beta testers ?

andrec

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:24 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 1322 Location: Bristol, U.K.

Broadbandjockey wrote:

Is my problem widespread with other 5.12.04 beta testers ?

FWIW, my experience with all the firmware versions I have run is that sometimes keypresses are ignored and sometimes they aren't. Not very scientific, I know, but my point is that I have been unaware of any consistent changes - either for the better or the worse - in moving between f/w versions.

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