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k9oxon
Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 5:04 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 48 Location: Devon (Caradon Hill X'mttr)
I have a friend who periodically loses all of his taps!! (like today was about the sixth time in nine months or so)

That is all the folders under the program folder (autostart, log, settings) exist but are emptied. Data folder and recordings are fine; channel setup and timers unaffected. He swears he is doing nothing to cause it!

Can't do myinfo, but he has early TP5800:
firmware v5.13.65T (don't know patches)
TAPS EPGNavigator 5.1c
Quickjump 1.72

I know this is sparse information, but does anyone know of a bug/situation that can cause this bit of behaviour?
Ron
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 5:22 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 3960
Probably too much loaded in memory causing corruption of the disk when it runs out of free space (too many channels?)

Disk corruption can also be caused by recording/watching a poor quality signal.

Interactive Service (BBC's red button) can also cause issues (a tap is available to only enable this capability while the user is using it).

Sounds as though your friend doesn't really know about this site so possibly his capacitors have never been changed (get him to contact andyfras to repair and/or psu swap). Actually, this is important: if he has never had the capacitors changed then he needs to get it done as a matter of urgency before any "expensive" bits get damaged AND THIS MEANS TURNING It OFF UNTIL IT HAS BEEN REPAIRED

When a disk gets corrupted, it could be any areas that is lost; not just ProgramFiles.

My fsCheck tap can be used to check out the state of the file structures abd the hardware state of the disk.

My TopManager program (windows only) can be used to install fsCheck (and does a lot more besides, including taking a snapshot of the files in Programfiles),

We really need to see a MyInfo log (again use TM to retrieve).

Questions for your friend:-
1) Has he ever connected it to his current pc
2) What operating system is it
3) have all the capacitors been changed and by who (TurboSat means that they need replacing!)

I suspect your friend would benefit from using MyStuff; but a discussion about that can wait until the toppy is working properly again.

[edit]FYI, I can recover files on a corrupted disk (requires the disk to be sent to me). From your description, it doesn't sound as though the disk is that corrupted but it remains an option. Note: writing anything else to the disk will minimise what I could recover. [/edit]

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 17/1/16
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k9oxon
Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 5:42 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 48 Location: Devon (Caradon Hill X'mttr)
Thanks Geoff for a full and fast response.

Caps have been changed (by me). Full monty, as recommended by Andy. voltages within spec under load.

Will do myinfo and load your topmanager when next able to and do fscheck. Note though no sign of data file corruption, just program files/data. Easily recovered by copying from laptop. Will also follow channel quantity and red button hints

Only ever connected to my laptop W7/32

Am worried about legacy EPGNavigator but he refuses to change - even loaded mystuff to show him! (mind you maybe that loaded some patches that are inconsistent with EPGNavigator!)

Ron

_________________
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 30/10/14
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Bizman
Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 6:07 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 1707
k9oxon wrote:
Am worried about legacy EPGNavigator but he refuses to change - even loaded mystuff to show him! (mind you maybe that loaded some patches that are inconsistent with EPGNavigator!)

Ron
No need to worry there, I have loaded & used EPGNavigator to test something else I was playing with and there were no problems.

_________________
TF5810, F/W: 5.15.09T 4/9/2009 -FmTe+EzHsVb
TAPs: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; MHEG On/Off A3; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; PruneEPG 1.0; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; Extend v1.7; (fsSave 1.1);
Sig generated by MyInfo on 3/8/17

Other TAPs : FsCheck, Channel Organiser. PSU Caps 7/2/2011 Tx: Mendip. TV: Samsung (32"), NSLU2, STB: Labgear FV300. PC Acer Aspire One with Win7 Starter
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 6:28 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 3960
As you probably don't want to be going there too often (or spending too long when you are there), I suggest you
1) perform a full MyStuff install on the toppy (accepting all options to everything). This will put all the patches and utility taps on the toppy.
2) Rename \ProgramFiles\Auto Start\MyStuff.tap into \ProgramFiles - this means that the toppy should function as if MyStuff isn't installed.

3) Install TopManager on your laptop (if you haven't got it already)
4a) Connection| Create - create a new USB connection (use a different name if you already have a connection for your own toppy)
4b) Connection| Open
5) Tools| Install Files| PruneEPG

6a) reboot toppy and wait 2 mins for MyInfo to work.
6b) Display| MyInfo Log
6c) Cut and paste into this thread (CtrlA, CtrlC, CtrlV)

7a) Use the native menus to run \Programfiles\Utilities\fsCheck
(Archive, <<, scroll to Utilities, OK, scroll to fsCheck, OK, Archive (when fscheck stops)
7b) Display| fsCheck
7c) Cut and paste ( into the dedicated "fsCheck Reports" thread please)

When you have got it all back as you think it should be:-
8 ) Snapshot| Take - this will copy everything in \ProgramFiles to your pc (takes about 3-4 minutes).


I suggest you also set up his windows pc (if he has one) so that it can connect to the toppy (load TopManager and do a snapshot|take)
Might also be a good idea for him to register on the forum using his own "username"; it might save you having to make a visit

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
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k9oxon
Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 6:41 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 48 Location: Devon (Caradon Hill X'mttr)
Thanks very much both. With all this 'homework', it'll be a few days before I am back here! Smile

PS
Quote:
2) Rename \ProgramFiles\Auto Start\MyStuff.tap into \ProgramFiles - this means that the toppy should function as if MyStuff isn't installed.

Do you mean move it from Auto start folder into main Program Files folder?

_________________
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 30/10/14
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 7:17 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 3960
Yes - or you could delete it completely (renaming means you could easily reinstate it if you persuade him to change his mind).

I suspect a lot of users are put off using MyStuff because it can do lots of things (and we tend to baffle them when you show what it can do). If the user just wants to record stuff by pressing record in the EPG then it is pretty simple to use (I can't speak for EPG Navigator as I've never tried it)

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 17/1/16
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k9oxon
Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:27 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 48 Location: Devon (Caradon Hill X'mttr)
Have reduced channel count to under 40 and done the fscheck (posted). This shows an undeletable bad file.

Here is his myinfo:

Code:

MyInfo B5.6 Logging settings etc on: 17/5/2015 at 17:24

Waiting for other TAPs to load and settle

Ini file found
Starting to record data 60 seconds from boot

System ID: 456
TV Output: Type = Auto, Video = RGB, RF Channel = 36
Reported firmware version: TF-NPT 5.13.65T dated Oct 10 2009
Base firmware version: 5.13.65

Running TAPS:
   Slot 0: PcControl B1.4  :  Toppy control from PC
   Slot 1: EPG2MEI v0.96  :  Dumps the EPG data to disk as EPG.mei, with changes since last time in EPG_diff.mei
   Slot 2: EPGnavigator v5.1c  :  EPGnavigator v5.1c - English
   Slot 3: QuickJump 1.72  :  Jump with the coloured buttons
   Slot 4: Font Manager 1.0d  :  Manage TAP Fonts
   Slot 5: Extend v1.7  :  Uses the Accurate Recording info to extend recordings (safely)
   Slot 6: SecCache (UK) v0.4  :  Optimal (UK) section caching to reduce the load on the Toppy
   Slot 7: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6  :  Provides faster, simpler and more robust EIT data collection, except when playing games
   Slot 8: MyInfo B5.6  :  Displays & records Toppy basic info
   Slots 9 - 15 not used


Installed patch list:-  Ab Bf Bq Ce Ck Cp Cw Cy De Ec Ee Ef Ep Er Es F Fm Gm H He Kt Mh Nf Ot P Pc R Ra Re Rh Rp Rs S Sd Sl Sr St T2 Td Te Tf Tp Ts Vr Xp Xw Xl
Firmware 5.13.65T 14/4/2009  modified thus: -Sy+Ab+Cp+Cw+De+Fm+Ot+Re+Sl+Td+Te+Xl
Patch Decode Links - Will explain your patches:
   5.13.65T 14/4/2009 :- http://www.toppy.org.uk/~simonc/dp.html?p=AbBfBqCeCkCpCwCyDeEcEeEfEpErEsFFmGmHHeKtMhNfOtPPcRRaReRhRpRsSSdSlSrStT2TdTeTfTpTsVrXpXwXl
   Missing patches:- http://www.toppy.org.uk/~simonc/dp.html?p=Sy
   Extra patches:- http://www.toppy.org.uk/~simonc/dp.html?p=AbCpCwDeFmOtReSlTdTeXl

Time Mode set to Auto
Time Offset set to Auto

Found 38 TV channels and 0 Radio channels
No channel problems detected
LCNs of programme channels found on Tx Ch 48 are: 10, 20, 30, 31, 37, 55, 61, 66,
LCNs of programme channels found on Tx Ch 50 are: 1, 2, 7, 9, 80, 81, 301,
LCNs of programme channels found on Tx Ch 52 are: 11, 12, 17, 32, 42, 46, 68, 82,
LCNs of programme channels found on Tx Ch 56 are: 18, 19, 21, 24, 45, 47, 83, 302,
LCNs of programme channels found on Tx Ch 59 are: 3, 4, 5, 6, 14, 15, 28,

Interactive Off
Timeshift On

Memory - Free: 13 MB,  Available: 13 MB
Disk - Total: 233 GB, Free: 120 GB

_________________
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 30/10/14
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:46 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 3960
The MyInfo log looks fine.

If the user is not going to use MyStuff, suggest you rename FontManager.tap from \ProgramFiles\Auto Start into \ProgramFiles.

I've mentioned how you might remove the bad files in the fsCheck Reports thread.

Might be a good idea to set your friend up to register on the forum; that way his Posts related to him won't get mixed up with yours.

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 17/1/16
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mstombs
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 9:35 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 31 Dec 2006 Posts: 935
Quote:
Found 38 TV channels and 0 Radio channels
No channel problems detected
LCNs of programme channels found on Tx Ch 48 are: 10, 20, 30, 31, 37, 55, 61, 66,
LCNs of programme channels found on Tx Ch 50 are: 1, 2, 7, 9, 80, 81, 301,
LCNs of programme channels found on Tx Ch 52 are: 11, 12, 17, 32, 42, 46, 68, 82,
LCNs of programme channels found on Tx Ch 56 are: 18, 19, 21, 24, 45, 47, 83, 302,
LCNs of programme channels found on Tx Ch 59 are: 3, 4, 5, 6, 14, 15, 28,


I recommend factory reset and rescan for channels, this config is very old - for example BBC red button services moved from 301/302 to 601 and 45=Film4+1 moved to an HD mux not viewable on a Toppy a long time ago! What was 80-83, probably 130+ now?

See official current channel listings here

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/industry/Channels/channel_listings
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k9oxon
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:32 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 48 Location: Devon (Caradon Hill X'mttr)
Quote:
I recommend factory reset and rescan for channels


Thanks for the thought. Will do. However is this problem likely to casue the program folder emptying/reinitilisation experienced? Ron

_________________
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 30/10/14
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mstombs
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:52 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 31 Dec 2006 Posts: 935
I do not see a direct link between channel config and disk corruption - but I have no experience of epg navigator - channel/favlist misalignment used to be able to crash MyStuff horribly.

Power supply capacitor degradation, poor signal quality and tap crashes are all likely causes of disk corruption. At best you get a VF&F on restart, but if the Toppy OS can't fix the corruption I guess it does equivalent of re-format.

I also recommend PruneEPG which greatly enhances the native Toppy EPG info storage.
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k9oxon
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:57 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 48 Location: Devon (Caradon Hill X'mttr)
Quote:
Toppy OS can't fix the corruption I guess it does equivalent of re-format.

That makes sense. The strange thing about this situation is that the data folders are unaffected, so it is not re-formatted.

Have loaded pruneepg, following geoff's recommendations

_________________
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 30/10/14
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juwlz
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:58 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10810 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
k9oxon wrote:
Thanks for the thought. Will do. However is this problem likely to casue the program folder emptying/reinitilisation experienced? Ron
Use Channel Organiser to do it (telling it which transmitter to use, so that you don't get duplicates in the first place), and delete all the ones you don't want afterwards. If you've previously used CO, it will remember your choices for next time, so it's pretty quick (WAY quicker than deleting multiple channels with the native UI.)

Julie

P.S. Does your friend regularly put his/her Toppy into standby (i.e. at least once per day?) Memory leaks aren't handled well by the Toppy, and anything that causes memory corruption can cause any kind of random weirdness, corruption, etc. - see Toppy Memory for more detail. (The MyStuff-related bits won't apply, but anything about memory corruption in general will.)

_________________
5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+BmC0CfCtFsIMPePsR3UUuUxZ
5810, TS On, F/W: F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +BmCfCtFsR3Z
MyStuff info; Help!; Reference
Harmony 885 remote. Sig date 8 April 2012
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juwlz
Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 1:25 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10810 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
mstombs wrote:
I do not see a direct link between channel config and disk corruption - but I have no experience of epg navigator - channel/favlist misalignment used to be able to crash MyStuff horribly.
Memory corruption can cause just about anything. If the bit of memory that is corrupted happens to be a pointer to somewhere on the drive, or a pointer to data in memory that's about to be written to the drive, then the drive will get corrupted. The nature of the corruption will depend entirely on which bit of memory got corrupted, what dodgy information got into that bit of memory, and how it was interpreted.

I've certainly seem at least one apparently random partial disk wipe on one of my own Toppies. It may just be that the Toppy that is the focus of this thread happens to get a fairly consistent corruption for some reason, which only affects the ProgramFiles directory. (Maybe the corrupted bit of memory is a pointer to that directory?)

The other memory / channel related corruption is discussed at great length in Disk wipes due to poor signal.

Julie

_________________
5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+BmC0CfCtFsIMPePsR3UUuUxZ
5810, TS On, F/W: F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +BmCfCtFsR3Z
MyStuff info; Help!; Reference
Harmony 885 remote. Sig date 8 April 2012
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