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louischiron
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:13 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 Mar 2009 Posts: 21
Hello,
First of all please ignore my signature - its way out of date and my current problem means i can no longer update it. I was on the latest recommended firmware and latest MyStuff version.

Problem:
My Toppy has lost the HDD!
I switched it on on Boxing Day morning to the message: "Format Hard Drive / 'Are you sure you want to continue?" with a Yes/No option.

I selected "No" (I only want to do that as a last resort as i don't want to loose my recordings if i can help it) and having looked through this site for similar problems and solutions tried a reinstall of Firmware and My Stuff etc.

Unfortunately it got progressively worse - firstly losing access to the archive of recorded programmes, then MyStuff and other TAPs.

Now i am stuck on the native menu for a channel search and the Toppy is only responsive for the first 10 seconds or so after which i can't do anything?!?! I could hear the HDD spin up but then stop.

The Toppy ran out of recording space the same night - could this have caused the error? - I did free up some space immediately but that didn't fix it.

I note that quite a few people have had similar issues recently.
Juwlz has mentioned previously about bad signals possibly causing a problem - there were bad storms here (East Midlands) over Christmas.

The box is about 5/6 years old but AndyFras did a full PSU replacement and health check last month for me so don't think that will be the problem. I do recall that he had particular problems with the File Structure on the HDD at that time which required input from Geoff Bacon but this was all fixed and i had the Toppy working fine (if not a bit slow) since then.

Does anybody have any idea how to solve this?
(I don't have a PC, only a Laptop - can i hook the drive up to that to check it?)

Many thanks in advance

_________________
TF5800, IA On, TS On, F/W: 5.13.65T 14/4/2009 -Sy+AbCpCwDeOtPeReSlTdTe
TAPs: MyInfo B5.6; (EPG2MEI v0.96); (MyStuff 6.4); (Font Manager 1.0); (Extend v1.7); (SecCache (UK) v0.4); (EIT Sub (Game) v0.6);
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andyfras
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:20 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3393
louischiron wrote:
I don't have a PC, only a Laptop - can i hook the drive up to that to check it?

If the laptop is running Windows you can connect the disk via a caddy or similar and run TopfHDRW/Doctor which may be able to fix the corruption.

http://www.topfield.cc/files/Firebird/TopfHDRW_Setup.zip

_________________
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.6 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver : Prune EPG
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 320GB 2.5", Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScUUuWfZ
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louischiron
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:26 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 Mar 2009 Posts: 21
Andy, thanks for the quick reply.
It is a Windows laptop.

I don't have a Caddy (will pick one up tomorrow) but can I just hook up the laptop to the Toppy via a USB cable to do the same thing?

_________________
TF5800, IA On, TS On, F/W: 5.13.65T 14/4/2009 -Sy+AbCpCwDeOtPeReSlTdTe
TAPs: MyInfo B5.6; (EPG2MEI v0.96); (MyStuff 6.4); (Font Manager 1.0); (Extend v1.7); (SecCache (UK) v0.4); (EIT Sub (Game) v0.6);
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andyfras
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:42 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3393
louischiron wrote:
...can I just hook up the laptop to the Toppy via a USB cable to do the same thing?

Sadly, no. The disk must be recognised as a drive by the PC (although it won't recognise the Toppy format, which is why TopfHDRW is required).

_________________
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.6 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver : Prune EPG
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 320GB 2.5", Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScUUuWfZ
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ryclark
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:45 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 1611 Location: Shropshire
No you need an USB caddy so that TopfHDRW can talk to the drive directly from the program running on Windows. The Toppy USB connection is only a slave connection and can only be controlled from the PC end and has no direct connection to the hard drive.

Edit. Snap!

_________________
TF5800t, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Fm
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; MyInfo B5.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; MHEG On/Off A3; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; TSSaver v0.5;
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:33 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 3960
You want something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-2-5-3-5-IDE-SATA-HDD-Adapter-Converter-with-Power-Cable-for-win7-XP-/271186661537?pt=UK_Computing_Drive_Cables_Adapters&hash=item3f23fc10a1#ht_3173wt_958.

If buying on eBay, make sure it is from the UK (may take 3 weeks from Hong Kong!)
There are cheaper ones but this includes the external power supply (which you will need).

There may be similar on eBay that will do a next day delivery.

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
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louischiron
Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:57 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 Mar 2009 Posts: 21
Thanks Geoff. I have ordered this. It should be here beginning of next week.

_________________
TF5800, IA On, TS On, F/W: 5.13.65T 14/4/2009 -Sy+AbCpCwDeOtPeReSlTdTe
TAPs: MyInfo B5.6; (EPG2MEI v0.96); (MyStuff 6.4); (Font Manager 1.0); (Extend v1.7); (SecCache (UK) v0.4); (EIT Sub (Game) v0.6);
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:37 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 3960
Let's hope I told you the correct one then! (well the bits look similar to what I ordered about a year ago).

I think that when I started using it, I didn't bother with the software that comes with it; suggest you just try using it and only install from the cd if you need to.

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
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louischiron
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:26 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 Mar 2009 Posts: 21
So i have now received the caddy (it was the right one thank you Geoff).

(just before removing the drive i tried switching on the Toppy one last time. it displayed BBC2 (not the 'Menu' nor the 'Format HDD' message) but was completely unresponsive to any buttons being pressed either on the remote or the box itself (apart from the Power button on the box that needed to be pressed twice to shut down). I did here the HDD spin down and park its heads when the Toppy powered off.)

I've run Topfield Doctor it showed these results:

Info: TopfHDDoctor V0.21.8
Info: Testing PhysicalDrive1
Info: Test started @ 2014-01-09 21:17:36
Info: Sectors per Cluster: Superblock: 3760, Backup Superblock: 3760, Calc: 3760, Size: 232.88 GB
OK: Superblock - Parameter area
OK: Superblock - Backup Parameter area
OK: Superblock - Root Directory
OK: Cluster 0 - Root Directory
OK: FAT
Info: Test finished @ 2014-01-09 21:17:49
================================================================================
Info: Cluster size = 1.84 MB
Info: Used: 125 files; 16 directories; 87407 clusters; 156.7 GB; 67.3%
Info: Free: 42484 clusters; 76.2 GB
================================================================================

Select "File - Write changes to the disk" to make the modifications permanent.



I'm not sure what any of that means but it doesn't look like it found a problem or fixed anything.

I haven't done the next step: "Select "File - Write changes to the disk" to make the modifications permanent."

Do i need to do this?

What should i do after that?
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ccs
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:57 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 2399
Drive looks ok to me - no corruptions.

Might be worth waiting for a 2nd opinion.

_________________
TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -FmXl+CtEzIScVdZ
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.6;
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ccsx
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:13 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 3960
I seem to remember that TopfHDRW has a mode where you can look at the file structure on the toppy disk (and copy files on/off). Suggest you try this to see if the files look ok and that you have all the recordings you think you should have.
Note: You might need to write the structure back out first.

I haven't much experience of TopfHDRW. I was writing my own but shelved that a couple of months ago; I might resurrect it at some point but it would require a lot of work to code all my ideas (hence my lack of enthusiasm in restarting it).

Suggest you pm andyfras and ask his advice (he has experience of this program).

As a last resort, you could put the disk back in the toppy and try it again after making sure the interface cable is fully seated (just in case it was slightly loose after being shipped or that it had worked loose with thermal expansion/contraction). If you do get it working, try my fsCheck tap and post the results in the fsCheck Reports thread (I think I have a copy of a previous run using your disk that can be used for comparison purposes)

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
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louischiron
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:15 am Reply with quote
Joined: 24 Mar 2009 Posts: 21
So now I'm having problems loading TopfHDRW (newly downloaded and installed).

When i try to run the program I get the "Loading Topfield Disk 1. Please Standby" message.

then I get the following error message:

"External Error Handler"
Application: TopdfHDReadWrite
Version: V0.21.8
Error: 35602
Description: Key is not unique in collection
Source: Node
Procedure: ShowDirList
LineNumber: 2200
Stack: ShowDirList - Combo1_Click - FSShowDisks - Form_Load


Does anybody know what this means or how i can resolve it to get TopfHDRW loaded?

_________________
TF5800, IA On, TS On, F/W: 5.13.65T 14/4/2009 -Sy+AbCpCwDeOtPeReSlTdTe
TAPs: MyInfo B5.6; (EPG2MEI v0.96); (MyStuff 6.4); (Font Manager 1.0); (Extend v1.7); (SecCache (UK) v0.4); (EIT Sub (Game) v0.6);
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louischiron
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:56 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 Mar 2009 Posts: 21
Ok so i've got a little further with this now. I kept pressing 'ignore' and TopfHDRW eventually loaded. (geoff, i will attempt fscheck when i get the disk back in the box)

The vast majority of my recordings are there - being the ones sitting in the DataFiles folder. I am however missing several folders that i had created myself that held recordings - hopefully these may be recovered when i do a scan/match.

2 files were missing the 'Rec Header' and i have rectified that.

In the DataFiles folder ialso have the following 3 files:
_temprec_.ss (11.43 MB)
_temprec_.ss (0 B)
_tEmPrEc_sS (420.00kB)

Q. Does anybody know what these are, whether they should be there and if I should delete them?

I also appear to have duplicate entries in my ProgramFiles folder that maybe affecting how the Toppy starts up.

Q. Could anybody please clarify where this folder structure comes from? i.e. will it be reinstalled/repaired if I reinstall the latest firmware or MyStuff or will i need to get a copy from another user?

Q. Finally, why would the remote not be working if it WAS a problem with the HDD? surely i should be able to remove the HDD and the Toppy should still work as a bog-standard freeview tuner with working remote?

_________________
TF5800, IA On, TS On, F/W: 5.13.65T 14/4/2009 -Sy+AbCpCwDeOtPeReSlTdTe
TAPs: MyInfo B5.6; (EPG2MEI v0.96); (MyStuff 6.4); (Font Manager 1.0); (Extend v1.7); (SecCache (UK) v0.4); (EIT Sub (Game) v0.6);
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andyfras
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:31 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3393
louischiron wrote:
In the DataFiles folder ialso have the following 3 files:
_temprec_.ss (11.43 MB)
_temprec_.ss (0 B)
_tEmPrEc_sS (420.00kB)

Q. Does anybody know what these are, whether they should be there and if I should delete them?

They are related to the time-shift buffer, so can be deleted.

_________________
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.6 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver : Prune EPG
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 320GB 2.5", Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScUUuWfZ
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:50 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 3960
Quote:

In the DataFiles folder i also have the following 3 files:
_temprec_.ss (11.43 MB)
_temprec_.ss (0 B)
_tEmPrEc_sS (420.00kB)

The first 2 files are used to buffer the recording on disk when you have timeshifting enabled (this is what allows you to jump backwards).
The last line looks as though it is a corrupted file entry (well I've only ever seen them in lowercase). You should also only have one _temprec_.ss.

Anyway, you can delete them as the toppy will create them when it needs them.

I think you can do a scan and match on just the unallocated part of the disk. If so, this means that you can do it without formatting the disk first (which is the normal advice).
Note: might be best to delete the .ss files after you have scanned/matched and written out the folder structure.

I doubt that scan and match will put your lost recordings in their original directories (I expect that they will all appear in DataFiles)

Although it appears that you have duplicate entries in ProgramFiles, this might in fact not be the case. For example, you might have a single file with two pointers to it i.e. don't go deleting the files in \ProgramFiles.

Ideally, you want to reinstall the disk in the toppy and use TopManager| Snapshot| Take. Alternatively you can use Antares - possibly Altair - to copy all the \ProgramFiles to the pc. If using Antares/Altair, select the \ProgramFiles folder and select copy; this should copy all the sub folders as well.
Note: Theoretically, you could copy the files using TopfHDRW but this usually ends up with corrupt files because it doesn't handle non recordings properly. If you can't get the disk to work in the toppy then I suggest you use TopfHDRW to copy \ProgramFiles off anyway (while the files may not be usable, it will at least show you what files you need to restore from kits etc). Also, it may be that TopfHDRW only corrupts short files when it writes them back to the disk ie. you might be able to restore good copies by using TopManager or Antares.

The toppy files system consists of files. A folder is just a file which contains pointers to the files it contains. TopfHDRW is simply displaying the folders that it can read on your disk. If a folder gets corrupted, you lose the files that are affected by the corruption (the pointers are the only reference to the affected files).

You shouldn't contemplate reinstalling MyStuff until you have fixed the corruptions or you will just make it worse.

No idea about the remote (assuming the batteries are ok).

If you already have fsCheck.tap on the disk (and I know andyfras ran it) then I suggest you put the disk back in the toppy and try to run it; this will tell you whether or not you have duplicate pointers to files and/or other issues. Then put the disk back in the pc and fix it using TopfHDRW.
If the tap is not visible then I suggest you don't install it until you have fixed the disk corruption.

[edit]If you fix with TopfHDRW before running fsCheck then you may find that it reports no or few errors. Howwver, we also know from previously that TopfHDRW doesn't fix everything e.g. a bad .. pointer in a folder. [/edit]

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
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