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andyfras
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:07 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3097 Location: Fleet, Hampshire (Hannington)
The original PSU Repair thread is now 100 pages long and some of the information is no longer complete. Nobody wants to read through 100 pages to find all the nuggets of useful information, so I think it's important to start a new thread with up-to-date information.

The Wiki is usually kept up to date, so it is a good place to look.

The original capacitors used in Toppy PSUs are not the best quality, but there is no evidence that they were ever 'dodgy' in any way. They are similar to the ones used in Humax PVRs, but because Humax fit a fan, their capacitors last much longer.

Fitting a fan is recommended for all Toppies, but particularly for 5810s. It doesn't need to run fast, so it can be very quiet. There are various threads about doing this in the Firmwares, enhancements and upgrades section.

If your Toppy is a number of years old, some its capacitors will probably be out of specification. It's not a matter of if they will fail, it's just when. A 5800 will be OK for up to 5 years provided it has good ventilation and is put into standby when not in use. A 5810 will not last so long and I've seen failures at 2 years; this is mainly due to fewer ventilation slots on the 5810. Higher temperatures lead to earlier PSU capacitor and HDD failure.

Early 5800 PSUs used brown Sam Young capacitors. If your Toppy's PSU still has these, they should be replaced as soon as possible.

On later models, different capacitor types were used. Although the black Samxon capacitors were slightly better, the green Samxon capacitors were, if anything, worse. These often dome when failing, unlike the brown or black ones which show no physical signs.

Replacement capacitors should be low ESR (impedance) 105C types from a reputable manufacturer. These should last significantly longer that the originals. The current recommendation is to replace all 18 capacitors in a 5800 PSU and 13 in a 5810 PSU. Kits for DIY repair are available from me (and MikeyP) at very reasonable prices, and are much better quality than the capacitors available from Maplin. If you prefer, both MikeyP and I offer a repair service too.

If you suspect that your PSU may be failing, and you have access to a meter, measuring the voltages on the PSU edge connector is the best way to confirm it. Be VERY careful when doing this, as the large heatsink is at about 400V and will give you a nasty shock if touched. The key voltage is 5V, as the PSU uses this for regulation. If the 5V goes slightly low (4.9V or less) other voltages rise significantly and can eventually cause damage to some mainboard components and/or HDD.

Here are nominal and typical values for a 5800 PSU (HDD running):
Code:

Marked     Measured
30V        30V - 31V
22V        24V - 25V (wrongly marked on PCB)
17V        16.5 - 17.1V
8V         7.4V - 7.6V
5V         5V
3.3V       3.3V (has its own regulator)
15V        15V - 15.6V

12V        12V - 12.8V


The readings for a 5810 PSU are similar, but it has no 24V or 15V outputs.

There is further information on my website including a list of known faults for 5800s and 5810s.

YouTube time-lapse PSU repair (5800 type)


Last edited by andyfras on Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:21 pm; edited 4 times in total

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jumbo
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:12 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 11 Apr 2005 Posts: 4733
Spoilsport Wink

Andy: It might be useful to include the less common and more esoteric (sometimes self-inflicted) PSU problems and solutions too**. For example the fuse, MOV, rectifer bridge,..., and the costs (parts, labour) associated as well as degree of difficulty for DIY ers etc.

** e.g. touching the large aluminium heatsink
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andyfras
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:18 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3097 Location: Fleet, Hampshire (Hannington)
My website has information on every Toppy fault that I have come across and found a solution to; including self-inflicted.

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R2-D2
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:16 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12149
Fitting a modern, fast, big and cool-running SATA hard disk will also drastically reduce the amount of damaging heat building up inside a Toppy.

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SNAFU
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:13 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 6
Thank you so much for the info about the 5800 PSU. My 5800 has been flaky for a while but I put it down to the various effects noticed during the switchover of Sutton Coldfield so put up with it for a while.

I can still manage to solder 'normal' sized components even with my 60 yr old MK1-eyeballs so the replacement went off OK.

Went to Farnell, as suggested. Bought the highest spec versions of each one. A no-brainer really, they are only a few pence extra.

Farnell turned the order around overnight ! The parts arrived before lunch the next day. They have a 20 minimum order but they sell so much stuff on their website I managed to find plenty of other extra things I just absolutely had to have Smile

I notice that AndyFras supplies capacitor sets so thats an alternative.

Thanks again Andy

PS...with regard to heat from drives, has anyone tried using a laptop drive (+ adapter) instead, or even solid state HD ? SSD drives work best with an OS having the 'trim' function as a native feature.
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DX
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:33 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Posts: 2674
SNAFU wrote:
PS...with regard to heat from drives, has anyone tried using a laptop drive (+ adapter) instead, or even solid state HD ? SSD drives work best with an OS having the 'trim' function as a native feature.

ISTR someone tried a laptop drive unsuccessfully a few years ago. Not all desktop drives work in a Toppy so with laptop drives it may just be a case of finding one that does work but it could be a bit hit and miss.

There was also some discussion of SSDs and while I don't remember anyone actually fitting one it is worth a forum search to check.

Most people with heat concerns seem to go down the path of fitting a fan rather than different drive types.
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Laser
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:08 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 406
SNAFU wrote:
has anyone tried using a laptop drive (+ adapter) instead

A friend has used 2.5" drives successfully using a SATA adapter and the original cable. The problem is mounting the thing.

If you're going to buy a new drive, the 3.5" will be cheaper for a given capacity, but AFAICT you need a new cable.

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MikeyP
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:49 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 4818
I wouldn't use a 2.5 drive tbh, they don't seem to stand up to time like a 3.5 can

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derekblackburn
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:20 am Reply with quote
Joined: 14 Nov 2011 Posts: 1
My 5 year old 5800 PVR having failed, and wiped the hard drive, I put it on one side to Freecycle it - I'd heard that people liked to reuse them. Then I thought that I could do the same, so consulted this forum (... t=19103 & its 100 page forerunner) & sent the PSU off to andyfras for repair. He kept me informed, turned it around in a day, and it's back in service! Wonderful service, and strongly recommended. I might have considered the Turbosat drop in replacement, instead, but their website was a little unhelpful - they showed a pic of the sockets for their version, but I had to phone them to work out the finer points - anyway, mine was an old 5800 & unsuitable. They were very helpful, I must say. Anyway, thanks Andy, and thank you all fdor the forum.
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andyfras
Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:33 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3097 Location: Fleet, Hampshire (Hannington)
The recommended 13 replacement capacitors do not include the following:

C10 - 470uF @ 50V - 30V tuning
C12 - 470uF @ 35V - 24V unused on the 5800 mainboard, but part of feedback within PSU
C14 - 470uF @ 35V - 17V & 15V used for AV and switching circuitry
C7 & C24 - 1uF @ 50V - PSU internal stability

I am starting to see some older PSUs that may have had 6 or less capacitors changed some time ago, but are now showing more problems. Generally, replacing the remaining capacitors fixes them, but others need some or all of the above as well. The affected PSUs have usually had a hard life, i.e. poor ventilation and/or running 24/7.

Including the additional capacitors in my kits would add 2.50 to the price, so I would rather keep them as a supplementary kit.

There is one more electrolytic capacitor, C5 (150uF @ 400V), but I have never seen this fail in a Toppy PSU. It is quite expensive and its physical size takes it up a postal band, so I don't recommend replacement on a 'just in case' basis.

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jimhoughton
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:11 am Reply with quote
Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 7 Location: Devon, UK
Hi Andy,

Interesting that you say you're seeing more problems on TF5800 psus, mine has died in a novel way recently!

After a power cut a few weeks ago, I found my Toppy dead. The fuse was ok, and there is ~350V across C5, and ~12V on pin 3 of the switching regulator. I've tested all the diodes, R1, R3 etc, changed _ALL_ the electrolytic capacitors, but still it doesn't work. I read somewhere in the old PSU thread that the KA1M0680RB doesn't tend to fail, but I think mine has. It seems to be unobtainable or I'd try a new one.

I had the failing capacitor problem a few years ago and changed the five 1000uF caps for 1200uF ones, it's been trouble free until now.

I'd welcome any suggestions on what to do next!

Cheers, Jim
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andyfras
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:30 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3097 Location: Fleet, Hampshire (Hannington)
Are you sure that you changed C9? I have seen a few 'dead' PSUs recently and C9 has been the cause.

Other things to check are D1 and C7.

If your Toppy has had a particularly hard life, it may be the the first I have heard of to have C5 fail, which could lead to a failure of V1.

There should be ~16V on pin 3 of V1.

Check also the primary of T1; it should be very low impedance.


Last edited by andyfras on Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total

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jimhoughton
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:38 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 7 Location: Devon, UK
Hello Andy, thanks for the quick reply - on a Sunday too!

I'm sure I changed C9, but I've just put another cap in - same result, nbg. Also, D1 measures ok and I have changed C7. The primary of T1 is ~0.3ohms, as is the winding that feeds R2/D4. C5 is, I think, ok, as the rectified mains is present at ~340V.

I've only got 12V on pin 3 of V1 from R1/R3. Is this too low or is it normal as V1 isn't switching?

Cheers again, Jim
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andyfras
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:19 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3097 Location: Fleet, Hampshire (Hannington)
I think that pin 3 of V1 is internally regulated, so being only 12V may suggest that it is faulty. I've only measured it on a fully working PSU, but maybe it is only 12V when starting.

I'm not at home at present, so I don't have access to the data sheet, but I'll try to research it when I get back.

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jimhoughton
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:02 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 7 Location: Devon, UK
I've got the datasheet for V1, it says that the start up current (pin 3 Vcc = 14V) is 0.3mA, which would drop ~45V across R1. As I've only got 12V on pin 3 (measured with C9 and D2 removed to stop them from loading the voltage if they are leaky) , V1 must be drawing much more current than that, so I think that it must be broken.

I might have to go for plan B - it shouldn't be too difficult to put together a few psus to feed my Toppy!

Thanks again, Andy,

Jim
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