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EMJB

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:23 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 3262 Location: Maldon Essex

Bawbagg wrote:

How about packaging the firmware installer up with the required Topfield drivers in the Nullsoft Installer.

We've hacked lumps out of Topfield's software on the box itself, why not start hacking their PC software too Shocked

That looks interesting, but I would like to get the basic item working to everyone's satisfaction before taking a step like that. I have too many balls in the air at the moment without taking that one on just now.

EMJB

simonc

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:10 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 5616 Location: Cheltenham

If we're suggesting possible installers, I've used Inno Setup before. Dead easy to script, plenty of examples of installing runtimes and customizing the user interface. I used Inno to do the installer for Wuppy.

LordCake

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:04 am

Frequent contributor Joined: 03 Jul 2005 Posts: 217 Location: Manchester

If we're suggesting possible installers - if anyone is going down this route then unless there is a compelling reason not to, please consider using a cross-platform installer, so this is not a Windows only solution. One possibility is InstallJammer http://installjammer.com/ which is open source and works for both Windows & Linux (with Mac support promised soon).

I am trying to convert the script CW posted (Feb 19th) to InstallJammer as a proof of concept (having given up on the idea of a bash script/gtkdialog Linux only solution).

_________________
Model: TF5800PVR F/ware: 5.13.65EfNfCyXpXwSXlUUuHPTCeGmSrUxEsRs Xmitter: Winter Hill Q: ~100% S: 76-95% Aerial: Group C/D bandpass filter Taps: MyStuff v4.54d, RemoteExtender v1.5, deselect v1.0Connected: Toppy<->undeclocked debianSLUG + iguanaIR running: ftpd-topfield, rt2mei, bleb2tie & lirc
EPG data for radio channels: http://my.opera.com/bleb2tie/

jumbo

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:10 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 11 Apr 2005 Posts: 4733

LordCake wrote:

This is turning in to a 'sledgehammer and nut' saga. Anyone using Linux won't need an installer to put a firmware on the Toppy. Even Mac users will be fairly competent (by virtue of being Mac users Wink

). Moreover most people (including Linux users like I) will have a Windows box somewhere. So all this palaver (primarily) ought to concentrate on Windows users who (a) form the majority of users and (b) form the majority of users requiring the level and quality of support provided by such a tool. Of course if a universal installer walked through the door then all well and good.

EMJB

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:19 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 3262 Location: Maldon Essex

jumbo wrote:

LordCake wrote:

Please don't discourage LordCake (or anyone else for that matter). I suspect 90% or the TAPs, patches etc that people use are the result of people starting something not very useful and gradually extending way outside the original intentions to provide what now seems an essential part of our Toppy tooklkit. We are like mountaineers who have to climb the maountain because it is there, except we don't call in helicopters when things go wrong and often everyone benefits in the end.

EMJB

simonc

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:50 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 5616 Location: Cheltenham

jumbo wrote:

Anyone using Linux won't need an installer to put a firmware on the Toppy. Even Mac users will be fairly competent (by virtue of being Mac users Wink

What about someone that's bought themselves a netbook with Linux preinstalled? Even if they have a PC, it may be at the other end of the house and effectively inaccessible. If I suddenly found myself in possession of a Linux device, I'd far rather have an installer to do the whole process than fart around with the command line and a long list of instructions.

If a Linux installer is possible with minimal extra effort, then why not? As for Mac users, they're used to things "just working" - sounds like installer territory again to me.

R2-D2

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:59 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12149

simonc wrote:

As for Mac users

... it would have to be an iInstaller.

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jumbo

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:16 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 11 Apr 2005 Posts: 4733

simonc wrote:

If I suddenly found myself in possession of a Linux device, I'd far rather have an installer to do the whole process than fart around with the command line and a long list of instructions.

Trust me when I tell you that it was precisely the kind of farting around you describe that gave rise to Microsoft and has made Linux the success it is today. Farters like Bill Gates Jr and Linus Torvalds will always be the pioneers. And it is precisely the kind of farting around you allude to that attracts farts like me to it today. Long may we all fart our way to greater heights Laughing

PS "command line and a long list of instructions" are for real men!

EMJB wrote:

We are like mountaineers who have to climb the mountain just because it is there, except we don't call in helicopters when things go wrong and often everyone benefits in the end.EMJB

I'm up for adventure and exploration (including climbing a mountain because it is there) but I would not like to delude myself into believing there to be a challenge Rolling Eyes

Last edited by jumbo on Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

simonc

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:26 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 5616 Location: Cheltenham

OK, fart away. Having the option to fart is important of course, but requiring farting isn't going to suit everyone. Would you rather step someone technically incapable though the instructions or just say "run this", bearing in mind the fact that they may not be capable of ever getting a handle on what the whole command line thing is?

jumbo

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:29 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 11 Apr 2005 Posts: 4733

simonc wrote:

Would you rather step someone technically incapable though the instructions or just say "run this", bearing in mind the fact that they may not be capable of ever getting a handle on what the whole command line thing is?

How many people do you know who fall in that category? I believe in the Darwinian theory of "survival of the fittest". Harsh but a fact of life!

EMJB

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:37 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 3262 Location: Maldon Essex

jumbo wrote:

I believe in the Darwinian theory of "survival of the fittest". Harsh but a fact of life!

The mark of a civilaised society is, surely, that the strongest help the weakest. The simplistic Darwinian view ignores the fact that most people has strong and weak points, and society as whole is better for a range of skills. If we were all bankers ..

EMJB

Last edited by EMJB on Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

MarkG

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:13 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 672 Location: UK

jumbo wrote:

"survival of the fittest".

Survival of the fartiest surely? Very Happy

_________________
TF5800: IA On, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+Pe
TAPs: EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.2; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; MyInfo B5.0; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub v0.6; TAP Commander 1.34; TF5000 Display v1.51; SDS V1.3e;
EPG: Asus + rt2mei 1.1a

simonc

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:19 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 5616 Location: Cheltenham

jumbo wrote:

How many people do you know who fall in that category?

Plenty: most of my customers. They don't want to waste time doing a fiddly software configuration, they want to get on with the job they're good at.

LordCake

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:29 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 03 Jul 2005 Posts: 217 Location: Manchester

EMJB wrote:

Please don't discourage LordCake (or anyone else for that matter). ...

Thanks, I will take that as encouragement Smile

jumbo wrote:

... Anyone using Linux won't need an installer to put a firmware on the Toppy ...

Yes I agree, I don't need an installer but I would like a packaged solution that I can double click and it installs the latest & greatest on my Toppy. I don't want to be searching about in these forums then figuring out what combination of firmware & patches I will need. If a cross platform solution can be made, then why not? Nobody will force you to use it!

nwhitfield

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:48 pm

Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 9473 Location: London

I'm aware that this is still in my big pile of pending things...

I can't seem to spot an answer to the question about what people need to have installed as prerequisites for using this tool... and a clear set of instructions (or screen grabs) would be useful, if I'm to put together a page telling other people how to use it.

Where did we get to with all this?

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