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<  Firmwares, enhancements and upgrades  ~  Toppy.org Firmware Loader

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LordCake
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:17 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 03 Jul 2005 Posts: 217 Location: Manchester
@CW - Apologies if this has been asked before: I like the idea of this, but I don't run Windows. I've had a quick look at the zip file you release and it all appears to be compiled code. Is the source code available?(and is there a chance it would be intelligible to a non-Windows user!) - I would like to take a look if possible with a view to maybe producing a Linux equivalent.

_________________
Model: TF5800PVR F/ware: 5.13.65EfNfCyXpXwSXlUUuHPTCeGmSrUxEsRs Xmitter: Winter Hill Q: ~100% S: 76-95% Aerial: Group C/D bandpass filter Taps: MyStuff v4.54d, RemoteExtender v1.5, deselect v1.0Connected: Toppy<->undeclocked debianSLUG + iguanaIR running: ftpd-topfield, rt2mei, bleb2tie & lirc
EPG data for radio channels: http://my.opera.com/bleb2tie/
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chunkywizard
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:22 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 13 May 2005 Posts: 9277 Location: Sindlesham, Berkshire Tx: Hannington
It's all EMJB's work, I just maintain the scripts. I am sure he can share what he's done.

CW

_________________
Toppy:TF5800 F/W: 1365PaTcHeD
TAPs: MyStuff | EPG2MEI | FontManager | SecCache UK | Extend | FastScanGUI | EIT_sub_game | MyInfo | ScreenCapture with OSD | MHEG On/Off
MyStuff Manual & Logos | Known Bugs | Recommended F/W
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chunkywizard
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:23 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 13 May 2005 Posts: 9277 Location: Sindlesham, Berkshire Tx: Hannington
DX wrote:
EMJB wrote:
There is a known problem with rebooting the 5810 and I thought CW had changed the "sucess" message to reflect this.

I would think a message saying something like "To update the firmware please switch off the Toppy, wait 30 seconds, and switch on again" would do in this case.

EMJB wrote:
Have you a laptop by any chance?

It's a desktop (Pentium Dual CPU E2180 2GHz, 4GB Memory). I haven't seen any communication problems using the Topfield tools.


I've now updated the success message, thanks for the feedback.

CW

_________________
Toppy:TF5800 F/W: 1365PaTcHeD
TAPs: MyStuff | EPG2MEI | FontManager | SecCache UK | Extend | FastScanGUI | EIT_sub_game | MyInfo | ScreenCapture with OSD | MHEG On/Off
MyStuff Manual & Logos | Known Bugs | Recommended F/W
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DX
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:37 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Posts: 2658
Just a couple of thoughts on my updater Toppy communications flakiness.

One thing is that a different version of TfDll.dll is used by the Topfield tools (which seem to be reliable). Is there a reason why the updater doesn't just use the version of the dll already installed on the machine?

Another thought I had was whether the use of two different dll's in quick succession was an issue. Could the use of the XP.dll version have upset something so causing the Vista.dll to also fail. Is there any reason why the XP.dll would be needed on Vista anyway?
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DX
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:47 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Posts: 2658
Another thought...

Since this updater is aimed at the newbie user can the "Your Configuration" question be eliminated?

I'd argue the FTP option is inappropriate here. Mentioning Asus and Slug is only liable to confuse most normal users. Anyone who has already connected their Toppy via an FTP server isn't the target here. I think only USB connection need be supported.

As far as selecting XP or Vista for USB is concerned can't this determination just be made automatically?

I'd also like to see the USB drivers installed automatically, rather than the user having to install the Topfield tools first.

So the procedure would be something like.
1. Check if Topfield Tools already installed, if so goto 6
2. Prompt "Ensure Toppy is off and disconnected"
3. Install the TFBulk.inf driver.
4. Prompt "Connect Toppy with USB cable and switch it on"
5. Wait for driver to install, goto 7
6. Prompt "Connect Toppy with USB cable and switch it on"
7. Establish communication using TfDll.dll

Sorry if you have already considered and rejected these ideas, I'm just trying to think of what is easiest for the newbie user.
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DX
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:47 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Posts: 2658
Yet more suggestions.

I don't like the question about patches - it expects the newbie user know what a patch is, what MyStuff is, and what a TAP is? So how can we get rid of the question?

How about we modify FwLoad so it checks the existing firmware before updating. If the Toppy already has the De and Re patches installed then leave them in the new firmware, otherwise we remove them.

That way we shouldn't break an existing Toppy setup.
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ezhik
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:10 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 69 Location: Central East
Keeping the ftp options for SLUG and Asus also makes this independent of USB drivers, so much more useful for those running 64 bit and other unsupported versions of Windows. I like it!

_________________
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; TAP Commander 1.34; Font Manager 1.0d; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.3; MHEG On/Off A3;
TF5800t, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +EvEzPeUUu
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; TAP Commander 1.34; Font Manager 1.0d; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.3; MHEG On/Off A3; (FastScanGUI v0.6b);
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chunkywizard
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:11 am Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 13 May 2005 Posts: 9277 Location: Sindlesham, Berkshire Tx: Hannington
Hi Guys

Thanks for the suggestions, it's always good to get a fresh pair of eyes on these things. I think the form that this takes really depends on what we are trying to achieve. To find the Loader people have to have been exposed to the forum and so should have a basic knowledge of what a patch and a TAP is. I will definitely try to dumb it down, perhaps having a first question that just asks if they are a first time user which if they say yes just goes for the default option, whatever that turns out to be. I could also have an advanced option which then allows FTP, patch selection etc. I need EMJBs inputs regarding DLLs, patch detection etc.

One more thing I was thinking is maybe having some preamble which gave a bit of explanation and maybe provided links to the wiki/ r2s firmware overview page.

What do people think?

CW

_________________
Toppy:TF5800 F/W: 1365PaTcHeD
TAPs: MyStuff | EPG2MEI | FontManager | SecCache UK | Extend | FastScanGUI | EIT_sub_game | MyInfo | ScreenCapture with OSD | MHEG On/Off
MyStuff Manual & Logos | Known Bugs | Recommended F/W
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R2-D2
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:41 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12149
I think the focus should be real newbies who basically want to see one big button that will just get on and do the job (whatever you decided that should be). If they look a bit harder then they can find advanced options, and maybe the helpful links to explain what some of the terms being used there might actually mean, should they decide to wander from the simple path.

I agree that the default option should not include patches that will cause problems for other, older TAPs, so that would rule out [Re] and [De]. But I see no problem in also advertising the alternative of the MyStuff Installer for those who may want a complete setup in one simple step (obviously keep them as separate things, though).

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Troubleshooting -- User Manual -- Dark Side of the Matrix: Firmwares and Patches
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EMJB
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:46 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 3433 Location: Maldon Essex
DX wrote:
Just a couple of thoughts on my updater Toppy communications flakiness.

One thing is that a different version of TfDll.dll is used by the Topfield tools (which seem to be reliable). Is there a reason why the updater doesn't just use the version of the dll already installed on the machine?
The versions supplied are compatible with either standard firmware or firmware with the USB patches, so it seemed safer to use these. It also avoids the possible problem of the installed dll being in different places on different machines, or someone having renamed one.

DX wrote:
Another thought I had was whether the use of two different dll's in quick succession was an issue. Could the use of the XP.dll version have upset something so causing the Vista.dll to also fail. Is there any reason why the XP.dll would be needed on Vista anyway?
Odd though it may seem, it would appear that some versions of Vista seems to prefer the XP dll, but I am no expert on Windows foibles so cannot explain this. Using an XP machine, using the two versions in quick succession caused no problems in multiple tries, so this seemed an easy way out. If anyone finds selecting the right one first makes operation more reliable, we will look at the instructiions (or at using the installed one) more closely.

EMJB
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EMJB
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:05 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 3433 Location: Maldon Essex
DX wrote:
How about we modify FwLoad so it checks the existing firmware before updating. If the Toppy already has the De and Re patches installed then leave them in the new firmware, otherwise we remove them.

That way we shouldn't break an existing Toppy setup.


Seems like a sensible suggestion, and should not be very difficult to implement. The slightly awkward part is the PC communicating to FwLoad what it wants to happen - would probably need a "Conditional" subdirectory where patches would only be loaded if the running firmware had them in.

However that would imply that the user had the optimum configuration already, which perhaps is going against the concept of aiming for the very inexperienced. The alternative would be for CW to modify the script to ask the question in the form "Are you using, or planning to use shortly, any of the following TAPs: MyStuff, ...." "Answer No if you are currently using any of the following....", rather than referring to patches (though perhaps the patch should be mentioned in brackets so the experienced user knows what is going on.

EMJB
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EMJB
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:18 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 3433 Location: Maldon Essex
DX wrote:
As far as selecting XP or Vista for USB is concerned can't this determination just be made automatically?
Perhaps, but as we have seen it is not clear cut as to which version to use unless you have access to machines with every Windows variant, and then time to test them all. Even if you would like to buy me a dozen or so machines, I don't fancy the time involved in testing them all.

DX wrote:
I'd also like to see the USB drivers installed automatically, rather than the user having to install the Topfield tools first.

So the procedure would be something like.
1. Check if Topfield Tools already installed, if so goto 6
2. Prompt "Ensure Toppy is off and disconnected"
3. Install the TFBulk.inf driver.
4. Prompt "Connect Toppy with USB cable and switch it on"
5. Wait for driver to install, goto 7
6. Prompt "Connect Toppy with USB cable and switch it on"
7. Establish communication using TfDll.dll

Unfortunately this is way beyond my current skill set - I haven't a clue how to (or even how to find out how to without buying expensive Microsoft documentation) perform action such as 3. I am pretty sure it is not just a case of copying a file into a specfic location. And then there is the issue of testing on all the Windows variants.
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DX
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:34 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Posts: 2658
I think the aim should be a "no questions" approach - any time you ask one someone is bound to get the answer wrong. As R2-D2 says "one big button".

We could even dispense with the have you a 5800 or 5810 question, download both, and have FwLoad decide which to use.

Devils Advocate - if you are going to ask the user questions why not do it on the server? You have a prominent link saying "Get you firmware here", clicking that asks a few questions and downloads a package containing an appropriate firmware and Topfield tools. User install tools, starts TFDN_USB, loads firmware.tfd, presses download button.

If we are going to have a different process I think it needs to be simpler, so what steps can we eliminate from the above.
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EMJB
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:45 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 3433 Location: Maldon Essex
LordCake wrote:
@CW - Apologies if this has been asked before: I like the idea of this, but I don't run Windows. I've had a quick look at the zip file you release and it all appears to be compiled code. Is the source code available?(and is there a chance it would be intelligible to a non-Windows user!) - I would like to take a look if possible with a view to maybe producing a Linux equivalent.


The Installer code has been written in Delphi (essentially Turbo Pascal with graphical/windows etc features), and consists of contributions from myself, Bawbagg and a number of open sources. Unfortunately Borland (now CodeGear) have dropped the Linux equivalent so it will all need recoding in whatever language appeals to you. No doubt many of the public domain library functions will have equivalents in other languages, but will they have similar interfaces? If you want to persue this, can I suggest you look at this, which forms the basis of the USB communuication. If you can transcode this and get it working, you are perhaps 20% of the way there.

EMJB
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DX
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:47 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Posts: 2658
EMJB wrote:
as we have seen it is not clear cut as to which version to use

OK, if both are needed have them.

EMJB wrote:
I am pretty sure it is not just a case of copying a file into a specfic location.

It used to be pretty much that (copy TFBulk.inf into \Windows\inf and TFBulk.sys into \Windows\System32\drivers), then Microsoft made it much more complicated and provided a Setup api. I think the details may be available on Microsoft's website without requiring payment but I agree it isn't a trivial exercise, especially determining the success or failure of the driver installation after the Toppy is connected.
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