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rayd

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:54 am

Frequent contributor Joined: 03 Jun 2005 Posts: 377 Location: West London

sunstealer wrote:

Could you all let me know (for those that have this problem) if you have "time shifting" switched on or off.

I have timeshift on and have the keypress problem.

Cheers,

Ray D

sunstealer

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:57 am

Forum moderator Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 325

OK - just a thought

Wink

malc

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:43 am

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1377 Location: chippenham

I've played with this and found I can crash the toppy like this:

1. Toppy on (displaying BBC2 as it happens). Time shift off. No recording.
2. Pull file archive. Select file, options, rename. Scroll round screen by holding down the arrow.

It's noticeible that the button speed varies and the time to crash also varies so perhaps this is a processor loading situation. Sometimes I seem to have to scroll up/down then revert back to holding right arrow down to crash it.

Also of interest is that I pressed the TV remote mute button while holding down the toppy remote right arrow (I'm ambidextrous hence I pressed the TV remote with the other hand without thinking). The toppy stalled its key movements. Releasing the arrow key and pressing it again started the key moving. The TV muted so it didn't have a problem with the toppy remote sending at the same time.

When the toppy crashes the TV goes blank, the front displays C452 and then runs as normal and the picture comes back.

tichtich

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:02 am

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1380 Location: Eastbourne, UK

The crashes I've had have been while setting up all my timers for the week ahead. During this process I often hold keys down. Most often this is the yellow key, to scroll down to the end of the EPG (in the standard single-channel EPG view). I also hold down some keys while using Jag's EPG.

I suspect the crashes are caused by holding down keys generally, rather than being anything to do with the on-screen keyboard specifically.

We should soon have this rascal cornered. Wink

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Richard Wein
Firmware: 5.13.65 (patched). Auto Start TAPs: TapCommander 1.0.2, Power Down 0.6, DescriptionExtender 2.2, mei2archive 3.8I3, Automove 1.8, QuickJump 1.54, Improbox 2.1RC8, Jag's EPG 3.0b3 (TV & radio), Media Manager 1.5, MHEG Control A2g, Extend 1.7. PC apps: DGtoTop 1.1. Profile last updated 13/05/2009

Darkmatter

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:08 pm

Forum moderator Joined: 21 Mar 2005 Posts: 1237

Yep, holding down a key causes problems.

Curiously, I did go through a phase early on where key presses were being lost. I taught myself to give the remote more of a deliberate push ? not a hard stab, just hold the key a fraction longer. It appears very short jabs of the remote are ignored. Since changing to deliberate pushes, I?ve not had a problem.

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:56 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Posts: 2683

I've had a number of crash and reboots assosiated with repeat keypresses. Some have been while renaming recordings but a couple have been while rewinding a recording in progress in order to watch it timeslipped. With the latter I ended up losing the recordings, so I wasn't happy...

I'm using the 11th May software, no TAPs.

tichtich

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:58 am

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1380 Location: Eastbourne, UK

I've just seen strong evidence that this problem is a memory leak. I had the Memorywatcher TAP already running when I noticed that the key press problem was getting very bad, so I checked the free memory and noticed it was getting very low (about 100K IIRC). I'd been using Jag's EPG a lot and the standard EPG a little. Anyway, I was making a recording that I didn't want to lose, so I quit Jag's and did nothing else, but the free memory kept on falling anyway! Before long the Toppy crashed.

Now I just have to work out how to recover my "invalid file". Rolling Eyes

P.S. I've managed to recover the file by following some instructions at http://www.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6761 for restoring the sound to a file.

P.P.S. I spoke too soon. The video in the recovered file is fine, but the sound is patchy. Perhaps I need to try some different options in ProjectX.

malc

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:24 am

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1377 Location: chippenham

tichtich wrote:

P.P.S. I spoke too soon. The video in the recovered file is fine, but the sound is patchy. Perhaps I need to try some different options in ProjectX.

It could just be the signal. I get odd sound losses on ITV and C4 but AFAIR I've not seen this on BBC1 or BBC2. Opinion is that ITV teletext introduction started the problem.

tichtich

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:45 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1380 Location: Eastbourne, UK

No, it was definitely the conversion process that spoiled the sound. The patchiness was pretty constant throughout the recording (if that's not a contradiction in terms!), and the rest of the programme (which I started recording again after the crash) was perfectly all right.

But I do also get the sort of sound losses you mention. Definitely on Channel 4. I haven't noticed which other channels, if any.

nwhitfield

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:32 am

Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 9524 Location: London

I'm not 100% convinced that this loss of keypresses is a distinct bug, as opposed to merely a minor manifestation of the on screen keyboard causing a reboot; in the latter case, there will be lots of keypresses in a short space of time, which may be why it appears to have a more severe effect, culminating in a reboot.

So, for the time being, unless anyone has any really concrete evidence to the contrary, I think we should consider it a more minor manifestation of the same issue, especially since in many cases here people have reported that they have been using the on-screen keyboard to rename.

Anyway, feedback here, please. The keyboard causing reboot bug has been added to the database as minor bug, 52, and I'll append a note to that indicating that there may be a related issue with keypresses appearing to be lost.

http://www.toppy.org.uk/services/bug_info.php?bid=52

Nigel.

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Normsthename

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:17 am

Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 118

I know with my Topfield, having Timeshift switched off the Hard Drive powers down if you are just watching TV. If you then decide to watch something, the remote is unresponsive why the Hard Drive spins back up again.
Not sure if this is what people are experiencing, but perhaps explain some users problems.

tichtich

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:30 am

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1380 Location: Eastbourne, UK

Thanks for posting the bug report, Nigel. You're probably right that the problems are not distinct. But I think the issues are more general than you describe.

First, the crashes seem to occur after a lot of key pressing generally, not just in the on-screen keyboard. I'm now afraid to do much timer scheduling while anything is recording, in case of a crash.

Second, key presses get ignored all the time (even just after booting), and not only when the Toppy gets close to crashing, though they get much worse then.

I find the ignored keypresses are a major anoyance. In fact, now that Improbox has made it much easier to recover from cancelled playbacks, this is my number one annoyance! Rolling Eyes

shenson

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:37 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 11 Apr 2005 Posts: 558 Location: Stoke On Trent

I personally frequently see the toppy ignore keypresses. Maybe its because I use interactive services a lot. Usually its the arrow keys or OK but those are the keys I use most often.

Timeshift is off BTW.

I wonder if keypresses are checked with an interrupt. If they are just polled that would explain why keypresses are missed when the toppy is busier.

sunstealer

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:33 pm

Forum moderator Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 325

Pretty sure you hit the nail on the head there shenson. Darkmatter's art of the stab vs. rub / fumble / push etc.. is probably the only solution to this issue. Those using more TAPs may experience this problem more frequently due to more CPU cycle usage. It is possible to show this expermentally by having a TAP that checks the system timer between polls. The crashing is probably related to a memory leak that Topfield need to trace and eliminate.

xandertarr

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:05 pm

Regular contributor Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 36 Location: Plymouth, UK

This problem definitely occurs without using the onscreen keyboard. I have only ever used the onscreen keyboard once, but experienced ignored keypresses numerous times. As has been said earlier, most notably while using the arrow / ok keys.

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