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tichtich

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:16 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1375 Location: Bristol, UK

This topic started to be discussed in another thread, but as (a) it was off the original topic of that thread, and (b) I thought it deserved a thread of its own, I'm starting a new thread for it here. I'll start by reposting the relevant contributions...

xandertarr wrote:

Although what I have experienced doesn't sound as major as what you're suggesting, I do find that while performing some keypresses are ignored. For example changing channels and browsing through the EPG almost every other keypress is not recorded - although the LED still lights (as you mentioned).

I'm pressuming the LED is connected directly to the infrared detector circuit, so by it illuminating does not imply that the unit has acted upon the signl, but that the IR circuit has detected the keypress.

malc wrote:

You don't say what if any TAPs are running at the time. If there are is the same effect seen without the taps running?

xandertarr wrote:

Yes, even without any taps active the same is true.

When I do use TAPs, I have running Bookmark2UK and JAG's.

tichtich wrote:

xandertarr wrote:

... I do find that while performing some keypresses are ignored. For example changing channels and browsing through the EPG almost every other keypress is not recorded - although the LED still lights (as you mentioned).

I'm not sure what you mean by "while performing" (do you sing along with the Toppy? Wink

), but I've found generally that key presses are often ignored. Because this was so frequent, even in situations where the Toppy wasn't doing much (so it didn't seem to be processor overload), and because no-one else mentioned the same problem when I posted about it, I assumed it was a fault in the remote control, and have sent that back to the Satellite Centre for a replacement.

xandertarr wrote:

I'm pressuming the LED is connected directly to the infrared detector circuit, so by it illuminating does not imply that the unit has acted upon the signl, but that the IR circuit has detected the keypress.

Doh! I didn't think to check whether the "Remote" LED was lighting. If it is, like yours, then I may have returned the remote for nothing.

If this turns out to be a problem with the Toppy that cannot be fixed, then my Toppy is going back.

P.S. I've never noticed that this problem is associated with any particular types of activity. It seems key presses can be ignored any time at all.

xandertarr wrote:

No, unfortunately I don't sing to my toppy - it probably would completely fail if I tried as a result of my awful singing Laughing

I have to agree that it is probably any remote actions, just I personally find it more noticable while looking through the EPG.

It would be good to know how widespread this problem is. So please post here if you're experiencing it too, or have any idea what the cause might be.

_________________
Richard Wein
Firmware: 5.13.65 (patched). Auto Start TAPs: TapCommander 1.0.2, Power Down 0.6, DescriptionExtender 2.2, mei2archive 3.8I3, Automove 1.8, QuickJump 1.54, Improbox 2.1RC8, Jag's EPG 3.0b3 (TV & radio), Media Manager 1.5, MHEG Control A2g, Extend 1.7. PC apps: DGtoTop 1.1. Profile last updated 13/05/2009

timdee

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:10 pm

Joined: 25 May 2005 Posts: 8

Same problem. Sometimes the Toppy "catches up" and performes both keypresses after a pause, mostly it just ignores the keypress, though the LED is indicating that it is receiving the signal.

simonc

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:45 am

Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 5616 Location: Cheltenham

Yup, I had this last night. Only a reboot sorted it out, which the toppy obviously knew it needed and obliged without any pressing of the standby button on my part.

kieronishere

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:58 am

Regular contributor Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 41

I get this on a regular basis but can't seem to fathom any pattern as to when it happens. I tend to especially notice it when moving around the standard toppy epg or renaming a file. It doesn't respond to presses of remote keys even though the red led lights up to show it's received the signal.

tichtich

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:36 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1375 Location: Bristol, UK

I noticed today that the key press problem seemed to start after I'd been doing lots of stuff in Jag's EPG (setting up my timers for the rest of the week). Then I started experimenting with it in the standard Toppy keyboard display, and it gradually got worse and worse. Shortly after getting really bad, the Toppy crashed. But after it rebooted, the key press problem had gone!

I've also had two previous crashes after doing loads of EPG stuff, and though I didn't particularly notice it at the time, I have a feeling that the key press problem might have got worse before the crash then too. It also sounds like simonc had a similar experience.

It feels to me as though there is some resource shortage or overload that gradually builds up until the Toppy crashes, and the key press problem is a symptom of it. Perhaps it's a memory leak. I read somewhere that the Toppy uses a memory heap. Maybe stuff is being added to the heap and not removed again.

I also wonder whether Jag's EPG could be responsible. Has anyone experienced this problem who isn't using Jag's?

tichtich

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:16 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1375 Location: Bristol, UK

An update. I've just been doing some controlled testing, with no TAPs running, no recording, nothing special. I just booted, entered the archive, opted to rename a file, entered the on-screen keyboard and kept pressing the right cursor button. I didn't key rapidly; I left about a second between key presses. And I very soon experienced some ignored key presses.

So it seems this problem can occur at any time, and isn't just something that occurs after heavy use, as I had been starting to think. Still, it does seem to get worse under some conditions.

malc

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:23 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1352 Location: chippenham

Does the LED still flash? Does it get better if you move closer? If the problem is repeatable do fresh batteries help?

DB1

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:31 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 662 Location: Orpington

[quote="tichtich"]An update. I've just been doing some controlled testing, with no TAPs running, no recording, nothing special. I just booted, entered the archive, opted to rename a file, entered the on-screen keyboard and kept pressing the right cursor button. I didn't key rapidly; I left about a second between key presses. And I very soon experienced some ignored key presses./quote]

Begining to look very like a buffer full /overrun problem.

xandertarr

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:04 am

Regular contributor Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 36 Location: Plymouth, UK

Yes I experienced the same problem, I noticed it on the very first evening I had the unit - at that time I hadn't installed any TAPS. When this was occuring I was sat only about a metre away with brand new batteries in the remote.

As I said earlier, everytime I've noticed this problem the LED flashes

tichtich

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:14 am

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1375 Location: Bristol, UK

malc wrote:

Does the LED still flash? Does it get better if you move closer? If the problem is repeatable do fresh batteries help?

The LED does still flash, and I even tried a new remote and new batteries before I realized that. So it's definitely not a problem with the remote.

Strangely, though, when I press a remote button, it's not the red "Remote" LED that flashes but the green "TV/STB" LED!

tichtich

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:25 am

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1375 Location: Bristol, UK

DB1 wrote:

Begining to look very like a buffer full /overrun problem.

I assume you mean the key press input buffer. But why would that be full when the first ignored key press occurred? In my controlled test I was keying slowly, and every key press was acted on before I pressed the next one, up till the first ignored one.

rayd

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:07 am

Frequent contributor Joined: 03 Jun 2005 Posts: 377 Location: West London

tichtich wrote:

I also wonder whether Jag's EPG could be responsible. Has anyone experienced this problem who isn't using Jag's?

I was playing with Jag's EPG yesterday for the first time and experienced the Toppy not responding to keystrokes.

In all cases, the LED did flash, it didn't respond, but did the next time the key was pressed.

After a while, I noticed that the display showed EPG, even though I was back viewing a programme. Changing channels did nothig - EPG still stayed on the display.

I went into standby and the Toppy rebooted. This time it showed the time on the display and wouldn't show the programme number or EPG. Jag's wasn't loaded at this point as it wasn't in Auto folder.

A second standby reboot brought the display back to rights and it now seems to respond to every key press.

Cheers,

Ray D

tichtich

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:19 pm

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1375 Location: Bristol, UK

Since this bug has been reported by a few people now and doesn't seem to be caused by a TAP, could the moderator please add it to the bug list. As it doesn't cause any direct problem with recording or viewing, I guess it only qualifies as a "minor bug". Still, it is a very annoying one.

sunstealer

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:15 pm

Forum moderator Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 325

Could you all let me know (for those that have this problem) if you have "time shifting" switched on or off.

It is clear to me that quite long delays can occur if the hard disk is spun down. Many operations in the firmware seem to access the disk before completing in order to check free space (I presume) but also, possibly, to write some sort of debug information (I never did get round to looking at the hidden files that darkmatter found but they probably contain some tracking / debug / or state info). This often takes a surprisingly long time to complete. I notice it most often when I have the time shifting switched off (to prevent overheating which seems to be a problem also) and start a new recording - sometimes 2-3 seconds pause. Of course, this may not be the problem that others are experiencing but the Toppy clearly does pause for disk accesses for many operations without an "hourglass" type waiting symbol which can cause the user to make multiple keypresses. The problems people describe with Jag's EPG sound very much like a memory leak causing problems that are resolved by a reboot (it is VERY easy to create these when programming) - those of you that have this problem with Jag's EPG - can I suggest that you download the memory watcher TAP and run it for a while to see if your free memory space is drifting downward.

Cheers

tichtich

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:35 am

Frequent contributor Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 1375 Location: Bristol, UK

Thanks for your response, sunstealer. I've mostly had timeshift off, but recently switched it on, and the basic problem (key presses ignored) applies in both cases. I've often experienced the pause while the disk spins up (with timeshift off), and that is definitely a different phenomenon.

I'll try using the memory watcher tap.

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