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<  General Toppy discussions  ~  Unexpected Crashes and/or Short Recordings

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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:50 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 3960
Hi,

My ever faithful 5800 is playing up.
The symptoms are
1) It doesn't always record full episodes of some programs - typically Bake Offs (only around 13 minutes) and Strictly
2) It occasionally crashes when doing things with the remote e.g. deleting a still playing recording from the MS archive. Possible also when requesting a recording in the MS EPG
3) Once or twice have found the program frozen on the TV - needed to power off/ VF&F to recover

Note: Over the years, points 2 and 3 have occurred infrequently i.e. I just put them down to the joys of owning a toppy.

I'm assuming that the short recordings are because the toppy has rebooted part way through the program.

The PSU should be ok (refurbished by andyfras in Nov 2012 - the board has his mark on it) .
The toppy has been powered off for more than 2 minutes (checking the PSU has andy's mark)
The disk cables have been re-seated
fsCheck doesn't show any issues with the disk (file system and SMART data)
Nothing has been changed in \ProgramFiles in the last 4 months (not permanently connected to a pc)
No new electrical kit in home (excluding a recent freezer in the garage but I'm sure the issues preceded it's arrival).
No electrical kit set to automatically come on around the times of the issues

Generally, it all seems ok apart from the truncated recordings.

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
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andyfras
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:12 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3393
Have you checked the tuners with Signal Monitor?

Is it possible that there are some duplicate channels, or any from the wrong transmitter?

Is Interactive turned off (or controlled by MhegOnOff)?

It seems like it could be running out of RAM, leading to a crash.

A factory reset is always worth trying when odd things happen.

_________________
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.6 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver : Prune EPG
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 320GB 2.5", Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScUUuWfZ
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:52 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 3960
@andyfras

Thanks for the suggestions:

Signal Monitor shows 100/100 on all muxes for both tuners i.e. should not be the cause (unless transmitting strength has increased recently; it has always been 100/100 since digital changeover))

MyInfo says that the channel list is ok i.e. no duplicated channels.
I only ever scan with TopManager or ChannelOrganiser i.e. channels should all be from a single transmitter.

Interactive was ON - Have now turned OFF (can't see the tap in the native archive so suspect that I have renamed it's extension to disable it - will need to connect pc to find it).

RAM should be fine - after 5 hours running, both MS and MyInfo show 6MB free.

I will try running for a few days with Interactive OFF (I don't like changing too many things simultaneously when trying to troubleshoot - you don't know what you did to fix it.

If it still has problems, I'll try a reset/scan.

Many thanks

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
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fhjones
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:55 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Feb 2009 Posts: 160
Geoff Bacon wrote:

My ever faithful 5800 is playing up.
The symptoms are
1) It doesn't always record full episodes of some programs - typically Bake Offs (only around 13 minutes) and Strictly
2) It occasionally crashes when doing things with the remote e.g. deleting a still playing recording from the MS archive. Possible also when requesting a recording in the MS EPG
3) Once or twice have found the program frozen on the TV - needed to power off/ VF&F to recover


Ours does all of those things Geoff, with truncated recording being the latest addition to our list of issues. It recorded just 13 minutes and two seconds of last Sunday's Poldark.

Each time that our box freezes the HDD UDMA error count goes up by one and sometimes it wipes its hard drive. Also after a freeze it does a VFF on next switch-on.

I don't remember the box having the problem before I swapped the original HDD for a 1TB SATA HDD, so I wondered if the problem was something to do with that. The adapter is a Topfield, but it can be quite easily dislodged from the main board.

Last week I tried to replace it with one of Andy's adapters. I failed to complete the job due to ignorance of how it should fit, but while the box was open I swapped the PSU for another one re-furbished by Andy. I don't know if it will make any difference. If it freezes again I will swap the adapters.

The box is working OK at the moment, but something is wrong with MyStuff. I'll post the problem in the MyStuff section.

_________________
TF5800, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -FmSyXl+UUu
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; PruneEPG 1.0; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:05 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 3960
@fhjones

Your problem is slightly different from mine in that you get a UDMA error whereas I don't have any.

I have one of andy's adapters and it worked first time on the large disk I was repairing for another user.

Suggest you ensure that INTERACTIVE is OFF (in the native SYSTEM menus); this feature has always been flaky (which is why most use MhegOnOff to temporarily enable it while they are using this feature).

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:34 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 3960
ISTR that I enabled Interactive on my 5800 during the Olympics and, as well as failing to get it to work, I forgot to disable it again.

Next question: Does the Interactive service even work any more on a toppy?

My tap is call MhegOnOffNrb1.tap (I used to have "Now" in the name)

Pressing Text produces two messages saying it is "Waitng for interactive 'MHeg' engine to start" and "Started to load Interactive Data"

But nothing happens on the screen (tuned to BBC1).

Waiting some time (over 30 secs) and pressing Text again produces "Stopping interactive 'Mheg' engine" (the original "Now" in the tap name suppressed this message)

Note: I'm not using the red button here (hence "Nrb" in the name) because it is used by QuickJump (or MS if I was't using QJ)

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
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ccs
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:44 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 2399
Interactive services were never advisable on toppies.

The redbutton on my Sony tv hasn't worked particularly well for a year or 2 now, and about 6 months ago was almost unusable.

It's reasoable at the moment for reading text for half a dozen pages or so, and then disappears.

_________________
TF5810, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -FmXl+CtEzIScVdZ
TAPs: EIT Sub v0.6; EPG2MEI v0.96; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; MyStuff 6.6;
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ccsx
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Bizman
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:27 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 1707
Geoff Bacon wrote:
Pressing Text produces two messages saying it is "Waitng for interactive 'MHeg' engine to start" and "Started to load Interactive Data"

But nothing happens on the screen (tuned to BBC1).

Waiting some time (over 30 secs) and pressing Text again produces "Stopping interactive 'Mheg' engine" (the original "Now" in the tap name suppressed this message)

Geoff
My Toppy behaves exactly the same and it's because I have interactive services disabled.

_________________
TF5810, F/W: 5.15.09T 4/9/2009 -FmTe+EzHsVb
TAPs: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; MHEG On/Off A3; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; PruneEPG 1.0; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; Extend v1.7; (fsSave 1.1);
Sig generated by MyInfo on 3/8/17

Other TAPs : FsCheck, Channel Organiser. PSU Caps 7/2/2011 Tx: Mendip. TV: Samsung (32"), NSLU2, STB: Labgear FV300. PC Acer Aspire One with Win7 Starter
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:59 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 3960
@ccs

Thanks for that
I probably won't ever need or use it but would just like to know if it is supposed to work.
I'll probably leave the tap in Auto Start in case I ever accidentally enable it (ideally, I'd just like a tap in Autostart which always turned it off when the toppy boots but I'm not sure I can be bothered to knock one up)


@Bizman

You may normally have interactive off but, if you are running the MhegOnOff tap, it will toggle the setting each time the Text button is pressed.

Still it is nice to know that you also don't get anything usable.

Cheers
Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
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fhjones
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:24 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Feb 2009 Posts: 160
Geoff Bacon wrote:

Your problem is slightly different from mine in that you get a UDMA error whereas I don't have any.

I have one of andy's adapters and it worked first time on the large disk I was repairing for another user.

Suggest you ensure that INTERACTIVE is OFF (in the native SYSTEM menus); this feature has always been flaky (which is why most use MhegOnOff to temporarily enable it while they are using this feature).


The cause of the misbehaviour may be different, but the issues that I experience with our Toppy are remarkably similar to yours, even down to the thirteen minute truncated recording.

Andy isn't convinced that the SATA adaper is the cause of the freezing problem and neither am I. I am clutching at straws. It might be my imagination, but the machine seems a bit more responsive to the remote control since I installed the PSU uprated by Andy

Interactive is off. Probably normal behaviour, but pressing the red button on ours when tuned to a BBC channel starts the Mheg engine and loads the interactive data. Pressing the red button again brings up all the usual red button stuff. Pressing the exit button closes it down.

_________________
TF5800, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -FmSyXl+UUu
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; PruneEPG 1.0; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:52 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 3960
@fhJones

Interesting.
The fact that Interactive works for you when pressing RED implies that you either have
1) MhegOnOff loading before QJ and/or MS (in which case, you shouldn't be able to use RED to jump) or
2) Neither QJ or MS is configured to use the RED button (the tap that accepts it first gobbles it up so that the other taps don't see the keypress).

I don't need Interactive to work - it just bugs me that I can't find a logical explanation why it doesn't.

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
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TopTapper
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:58 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 209
Geoff Bacon wrote:
Does the Interactive service even work any more on a toppy?

I think you need to delete the RB channel(s) 601/602 to get the sod-all effect. Wink
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fhjones
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:59 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Feb 2009 Posts: 160
I might not have used the red button since I moved QJ to start before MS Geoff. I'll check whether it still works this evening and report back.

_________________
TF5800, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -FmSyXl+UUu
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; PruneEPG 1.0; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
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fhjones
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:08 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Feb 2009 Posts: 160
The red button works as I described Geoff, by luck rather than design.

The order of the TAPs is:

PcControl
EPG2MEI
QJ
MS
PruneEPG
SecCache
Game
MHEG On/Off

I haven't tried to allocate the red button in QJ or MS.

BBC Red Button channel 200 is tuned. Also Channels 600 and 601, but I only added those last weekend. I think that they might be the looping video channels, but I am not sure.

_________________
TF5800, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -FmSyXl+UUu
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.6; PruneEPG 1.0; MyInfo B5.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3;
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:07 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 3960
Thanks for that info.

I have now performed some experiments with just the MhegOnOff tap running
1) Tuned to BBC 1
2) MHegOnOff turns on INTERACTIVE when TEXT is pressed
3) It displays messages saying starting/loading
4) After many seconds (not counted), one can press RED and this produces the Interactive services
5) Pressing TEXT again turns off INTERACTIVE and returns to normal TV i.e. one can't use TEXT to display the interactive services, one needs to use RED
This is all as documented in MhegOnOFF.pdf

It doesn't matter whether 200 is present (BBC red button channel)
I did have 601 defined as a channel.

Directly accessing channel 200 results in a black screen i.e. still need RED to display the data.

Strange really as I'm sure I always just used to use the TEXT key to start and
display Red button services (perhaps that was before I used RED to jump?)

Conclusion
To use the interactive services, one can't have the RED button defined to produce a jump (in QuickJump or MyStuff). This is because RED is required to bring up the display.

This means that MhegONOff is not usable by anyone using the RED button to jump (this probably means most MyStuff users); we would be better off with a tap that simply disabled INTERACTIVE each time it was run. Placed in Auto Start, this would ensure that service was turned off each time the system booted (to cater for someone accidentally enabling it in the native system menu).

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
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