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nickbearman
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:29 am Reply with quote
Joined: 09 Jun 2013 Posts: 6
Hi Everyone,

I'd like your expert opinion on this. I've read the recent posts and it seems like this could be caused by the capacitors on the PSU generally getting on a bit. If so, andyfras or MikeyP, expect a DM soon! (https://sites.google.com/site/juwlztoppy/Reference#TOC-Toppy-repair-service-parts)

These are the symptoms: I have a Topfield 5800 which I have had for about 4 years or so. About 15 months ago, it got stuck on the Menu screen. i.e. the menu was open when you turned the PVR on, you could navigate the menu, choose different options etc. but could not exit the menu. I ended up copying the recorded TV files on to my PC, formatting the PVR HD, doing a factory reset, reinstall the latest version of MyStuff and all was fine. This then happened again 6 months ago, and yesterday. Again the same solution worked, but the increasing frequency of this is making me do something about it!

Do you think it is a capicator problem, or likley to be something else?

Thanks very much for your help!
Nick.
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billmars
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:47 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 761
Not being able to navigate out of the 'Menu' screen is usually because the box has lost all its channels. Do a rescan.
But I expect the underlying problem is your failing PSU.

_________________
BM
Firmware
5800 Samsung 1Tb Autostart TAPs: Extend 1.7;TSRCommander 1.5;TF5000 Display 1.53;EPG2MEI 0.95;MyStuff 6.6;QuickJump 1.72;Power Down 0.75;SecCache 0.4;TSSaver 0.4;MHEG Control B2;eit_sub_sng 0.6 Transmitter: Belmont Extras: as2mei (via NSLU2)
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alan_m
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:55 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3457
nickbearman wrote:

These are the symptoms: I have a Topfield 5800 which I have had for about 4 years or so. About 15 months ago, it got stuck on the Menu screen. i.e. the menu was open when you turned the PVR on, you could navigate the menu, choose different options etc. but could not exit the menu. I ended up copying the recorded TV files on to my PC, formatting the PVR HD, doing a factory reset, reinstall the latest version of MyStuff and all was fine. This then happened again 6 months ago, and yesterday. Again the same solution worked, but the increasing frequency of this is making me do something about it!



Topfields of 3/4 years of age do suffer from capacitor problems and many people have a preventative capacitor change to avoid future problems. I would recommend a capaitor change on a 4 year old box. However....

Stuck in the menu usually means that the Toppy has lost its TV channel information. You cannot exit the menus until you rescan for channels. This is normal behaviour. A factory reset (factory settings) followed by a rescan would probably have saved you from copying and reinstalling TAPs.

After a rescan you need to prune all of the dross from the channel list to be left with around 50 (this is the total of TV and radio).
https://sites.google.com/site/juwlztoppy/Reference/toppy-memory

The 5800/5810 is rather intolerant of duplicate channels and/or transmissions from more than one transmitter and poor signal levels.

As you have Mystuff installed you also have a few diagnostic TAPs installed on your Toppy. Possibly the best way to access the log files from these TAPs is to install the Topmanager program on your computer (assuming you are using Microsoft Windows)

http://www.geeceebee.co.uk/

Once installed - from the menu "connection" -> "open Toppy"
then "display" -> "Myinfo.log"
then "tools" -> "install" -> "PCControl"
then from the PCControl menu -> "measure signals"


Post back here the result of the Myinfo.log and the Signal monitor TAP (measure signals) . Both of these will give us lots of clues about your set-up and TV reception.

_________________
Ex Toppy 5800 user - now migrated to Extrend ET10000 Enigma 2 box with 2 terrestrial and 2 satellite tuners
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nickbearman
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:05 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 09 Jun 2013 Posts: 6
Thanks Bill, and especially Alan for your info and instructions.

When I did the scan yesterday, I don't think it included any repeated channels. We do currently live in an area with poorer signal quality, so that may be an issue. However, 15 months ago we were in a good signal area.

Here's the information. Myinfo.log:

MyInfo B5.6 Logging settings etc on: 9/6/2013 at 13:42

Waiting for other TAPs to load and settle

Ini file found
Starting to record data 60 seconds from boot

System ID: 456
TV Output: Type = Auto, Video = RGB, RF Channel = 36
Reported firmware version: TF-NPT 5.13.65T dated Oct 10 2009
Base firmware version: 5.13.65

Running TAPS:
Slot 0: PcControl B1.3 : Toppy control from PC
Slot 1: EPG2MEI v0.96 : Dumps the EPG data to disk as EPG.mei, with changes since last time in EPG_diff.mei
Slot 2: MyStuff 6.4 : UI Replacement
Slot 3: Font Manager 1.0d : Manage TAP Fonts
Slot 4: Extend v1.7 : Uses the Accurate Recording info to extend recordings (safely)
Slot 5: SecCache (UK) v0.4 : Optimal (UK) section caching to reduce the load on the Toppy
Slot 6: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6 : Provides faster, simpler and more robust EIT data collection, except when playing games
Slot 7: MHEG On/Off A3 : MHEG control
Slot 8: MyInfo B5.6 : Displays & records Toppy basic info
Slots 9 - 15 not used


Installed patch list:- Ab Bf Bq Ce Ck Cp Cw Cy De Ec Ee Ef Ep Er Es F Fm Gm H He Kt Mh Nf Ot P Pc R Ra Re Rh Rp Rs S Sd Sl Sr St T2 Td Te Tf Tp Ts Vr Xp Xw Xl
Firmware MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 modified thus: -Sy
Patch Decode Links - Will explain your patches:
MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 :- http://www.toppy.org.uk/~simonc/dp.html?p=AbBfBqCeCkCpCwCyDeEcEeEfEpErEsFFmGmHHeKtMhNfOtPPcRRaReRhRpRsSSdSlSrStT2TdTeTfTpTsVrXpXwXl
Missing patches:- http://www.toppy.org.uk/~simonc/dp.html?p=Sy

Time Mode set to Auto
Time Offset set to Auto

Found 53 TV channels and 14 Radio channels
No channel problems detected
LCNs of programme channels found on Tx Ch 41 are: 3, 4, 5, 6, 13, 14, 28, 33,
LCNs of programme channels found on Tx Ch 44 are: 1, 2, 7, 9, 70, 71, 80, 81, 200, 301, 308, 700, 701, 702, 703, 704, 705, 706, 707, 708, 709, 710,
LCNs of programme channels found on Tx Ch 48 are: 10, 16, 20, 23, 25, 26, 27, 30, 31, 34, 38, 39, 44, 49, 50, 72, 170, 171, 180, 201, 202, 203, 204, 228, 229, 230, 234, 235, 236, 304, 305, 306, 307, 790, 724, 727, 728,

Interactive Off
Timeshift On

Memory - Free: 14 MB, Available: 12 MB
Disk - Total: 233 GB, Free: 176 GB

29 recordings (49 GB) + 1 deleted (1 GB) in 3 folders (+ 0 empty folders)

Time since boot: 0:0:1 (d:h:m)

Suggested signature for Toppy forum - copy following lines to signature block at http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/profile.php?mode=editprofile
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.3; EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.4; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 9/6/13



Link to results from Signal Monitor TAP:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8mdnd23q2smjbcx/20130609SignalStrength.png

Thanks very much for your help!

Nick.

_________________
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.4; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 9/6/13
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billmars
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:28 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 761
Your signal monitor info only seems to show three muxs. I get five. What transmitter are you on?
And your COM4 quality signal is perhaps too low - should be at least 90%.

_________________
BM
Firmware
5800 Samsung 1Tb Autostart TAPs: Extend 1.7;TSRCommander 1.5;TF5000 Display 1.53;EPG2MEI 0.95;MyStuff 6.6;QuickJump 1.72;Power Down 0.75;SecCache 0.4;TSSaver 0.4;MHEG Control B2;eit_sub_sng 0.6 Transmitter: Belmont Extras: as2mei (via NSLU2)
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nickbearman
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:33 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 09 Jun 2013 Posts: 6
Apparently the nearest transmitters are Redruth and Caradon Hill. Is there any way of telling which one the PVR is receiving?

To increase quality, is it just a matter of tweaking the aerial? Or is there anything else I can do? For various reasons we have an indoor aerial at the moment. It might be difficult to have an outside aerial.

Out of interest, what is COM4?

Thanks,
Nick.

_________________
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.4; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 9/6/13
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andyfras
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:04 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3395
The channels you've tuned are from Redruth. See:

http://www.wolfbane.com/cgi-bin/tvd.exe?DX=L&HT=10&OS=tr1

You should also be receiving ArqA andd ArqB on 51 and 52. I suspect that you may have the wrong aerial for Redruth (group B) as you are not receiving the higher frequencies.

_________________
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.6 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver : Prune EPG
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 320GB 2.5", Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScUUuWfZ
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alan_m
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:13 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3457
nickbearman wrote:
Apparently the nearest transmitters are Redruth and Caradon Hill. Is there any way of telling which one the PVR is receiving?


Redruth

Quote:

To increase quality, is it just a matter of tweaking the aerial? Or is there anything else I can do? For various reasons we have an indoor aerial at the moment. It might be difficult to have an outside aerial.


Are you using a set-top aerial or an aerial mounted in the loft?

You are missing a couple of MUXs
A signal level *strength) figure above 60% will be OK BUT the quality figure needs to be 98%+ for reliable reception.

_________________
Ex Toppy 5800 user - now migrated to Extrend ET10000 Enigma 2 box with 2 terrestrial and 2 satellite tuners
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nickbearman
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:11 am Reply with quote
Joined: 09 Jun 2013 Posts: 6
It's just a set top aerial we're using.

Thanks,
Nick.

_________________
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.4; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 9/6/13
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juwlz
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:54 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10810 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
alan_m wrote:
A signal level *strength) figure above 60% will be OK BUT the quality figure needs to be 98%+ for reliable reception.
... and to avoid potential Disk wipes due to poor signal

Julie

_________________
5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+BmC0CfCtFsIMPePsR3UUuUxZ
5810, TS On, F/W: F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +BmCfCtFsR3Z
MyStuff info; Help!; Reference
Harmony 885 remote. Sig date 8 April 2012
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alan_m
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:13 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 3457
nickbearman wrote:
It's just a set top aerial we're using.

Thanks,
Nick.


Set top aerials are rarely satisfactory unless you live within site of the transmitter and sometimes even then when the room where it is positioned faces the transmitter.

You may be able to tweak the aerial position to obtain some better signals but you appear to be already having problems with missing MUXs and signal quality figures a lot lower than optimum. The performance from a set-top aerial is often degraded by someone simply moving around the room.

With a Mystuff installation you will find the Signal Monitor TAP in the Program Files/Utilities folder on the Toppy's hard disk. If you run this TAP manually you will get the signal strength and quality figures on your TV screen and they will update in real time (it will take around a minute for the TAP to cycle through each MUX and each tuner). With each tweak of the aerial wait for a short period while the SM TAP updates. If the connecting wire on the aerial is too short you could use an extension fly-lead to allow you to position the aerial in a better position.

Running ther TAP manually
http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=245850#245850
AND the post afterwards

If you do manage to get 98%+ signal quality for the 3 MUXs you are receiving you may want try another rescan to see if you can get the 2 missing MUXs.


For info only
http://www.ricability-digitaltv.org.uk/pages/going-digital/choosing-your-kit/indoor-aerials-pros-and-cons.htm

http://www.ricability-digitaltv.org.uk/pages/test-reports/indoor-aerials/recommendations.htm

_________________
Ex Toppy 5800 user - now migrated to Extrend ET10000 Enigma 2 box with 2 terrestrial and 2 satellite tuners
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:36 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 3961
You could also just measure the signals again using TM (but unlike SignalMonitor , this does not recycle around continuously so you would need to hit the "Measure Signal" button each time).
A good set of results should all be in black (your screenshot shows some are red i.e. crap).
BTW you don't have to use dropbox - just right click in the display and use one of the copy to clipboard options (as "Padded Text" is probably best in this case)

Assuming you do improve the signal, don't forget that you can do the scan using the TM PcControl| Channel Management option (this will automatically rescan any muxes that fail to detect channels):-
1) PcControl| Channel Management
2) Select the "Identify my Transmitter" option in the combo box and select the Redruth transmitter
3) Perform Scan
4) Right Click in the display and select "all Pay, Porn, Shopping..."
5) Delete Channels
6) Finalize

To simplify the restoration of the toppy disk (in case a poor signal wipes it again), use the TM Snapshot| Take option.

You say that the aerial is "set top"; you may get better results if you can mount it on the wall or shelf (less likely to get moved when someone dusts!).

Geoff

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; EPG2MEI v0.96; QuickJump 1.72; MyStuff 6.6; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6; WSSkiller V2.12d; CrashTrace v0.4; fsSave 1.1; PruneEPG 1.0;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 17/1/16
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nickbearman
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:20 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 09 Jun 2013 Posts: 6
Thanks very much for all your replies. I will have an experiment and let you know how I get on.

_________________
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.4; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 9/6/13
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nickbearman
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:08 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 09 Jun 2013 Posts: 6
I've had a play with the aerial and got a slightly improved signal.

Thanks everyone for your replies and we'll see how it goes!

Best wishes,
Nick.

_________________
TF5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy
TAPs: EPG2MEI v0.96; MyStuff 6.4; Font Manager 1.0d; Extend v1.7; SecCache (UK) v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; MyInfo B5.6;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 9/6/13
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