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Woolifox
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:42 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 05 Jun 2012 Posts: 6
Hi.

New to this forum but really hoping someone can help me.

My 5810 is stuck in a loop. When switched on it seems to boot OK, but then goes into the “verify files and directory please wait” message which chugs away for a while, before rebooting itself and so on.

The machine is not very old so don't think it will be the PSU problem I keep reading about.

I have tried the obvious; switching off at the wall and waiting a while and also I have tried rebooting with 0 pressed on the remote to boot without TAPs but all without any joy. The reboot with 0 looks promising and I can get as far as the system menu screen, but before I can go anything else it leaps back into the “verify files” bit again.

Is there anyway to force a factory re-set before it gets to the verify files bit?

The PVR was running My Stuff v6.2 and all seemed well with the world until tonight.

Any suggestions?

Many thanks
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Bizman
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:56 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 1010 Location: Taunton, Somerset
Welcome to the forum. How old is 'not very old' ? Do you put it in standby when not in use? Is it well ventilated?

_________________
TF5810, TS On, F/W: 5.15.09T 4/9/2009 -AbFmTe+EzHsVb
TAPs: EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; SecCache (UK) v0.4; MHEG On/Off A3; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; MyInfo B5.6; Channel Organiser B2.1
Sig generated by MyInfo on 4/10/14

PSU Caps 2/2011 Tx: Mendip. TV: Bush L322LED (22"), UPS, DVD-R: Panasonic DMR EH-50, STB: Labgear FV300. PC Acer Aspire One with Win7
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andyfras
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:00 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3065 Location: Fleet, Hampshire (Hannington)
If your 5810 is more than 2 years old, it could be the PSU capacitor problem.

If the disk is corrupted, the only way to fix it is to remove it and connect it to a PC running TopfHDRW/Doctor.

The main cause of crashes on a 5810 is running out of RAM. This is usually due to excessive and/or duplicate channels.

_________________
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.5 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : USB Accelerator : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 1TB with fan, Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScWfZ
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juwlz
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:22 am Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10354 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
Woolifox wrote:
My 5810 is stuck in a loop. When switched on it seems to boot OK, but then goes into the “verify files and directory please wait” message which chugs away for a while, before rebooting itself and so on.

I have tried the obvious; switching off at the wall and waiting a while and also I have tried rebooting with 0 pressed on the remote to boot without TAPs but all without any joy. The reboot with 0 looks promising and I can get as far as the system menu screen, but before I can go anything else it leaps back into the “verify files” bit again.
Holding down 0 simply prevents Auto Start TAPs from loading. VF&F happens long before that point, so I wouldn't expect it to make any difference.

You may find that your can reset it by flashing EmptySettings (search for it) using TFDN_USB (if you have installed Topfield Tools, you'll find it in the folder). This effectively does a Factory Reset.
Quote:
The PVR was running My Stuff v6.2 and all seemed well with the world until tonight.
There is known bug in the firmware (which is not well enough understood to fix) whereby you can get disk corruption or disk wipes when recording (or watching with time shifting enabled) channels with poor reception. There is a system call that can trigger these disk wipes, and versions of MyStuff prior to 6.4 call it rather more frequently than was strictly necessary. Version 6.4 minimises these calls, so should be much safer. (NB: Users who aren't running MyStuff at all have also had wipes - the only guaranteed way to prevent them is to delete any channels with poor signal quality.)

As you have a 5810, and to reinforce andyfras's comment about RAM, see Toppy Memory for more information on how to keep a 5810 running smoothly. As most people have had to do retunes for DSO and the transmitters are stronger, you may be picking up channels from multiple transmitters now, which will
a) be duplicates and need to be deleted so as not to cause other problems anyway, and
b) will probably have poor signal quality and could cause disk wipes.

Julie

P.S. If your 5810 is more than 2 years old and/or doesn't get put into standby at least once per day and/or is not well ventilated, see Toppy repair service / parts.

_________________
5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+BmC0CfCtFsIMPePsR3UUuUxZ
5810, TS On, F/W: F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +BmCfCtFsR3Z
MyStuff info; Help!; Reference
Harmony 885 remote. Sig date 8 April 2012
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roga
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:26 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 15 Jul 2006 Posts: 158 Location: City of London
andyfras wrote:

If the disk is corrupted, the only way to fix it is to remove it and connect it to a PC running TopfHDRW/Doctor.


I'd second that, I had similar symptoms a few days ago, and running TopfHDRW identified a file system problem, which I then fixed.

_________________
TF5810, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +UUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; MHEG On/Off A3; SecCache (UK) v0.4; Extend v1.7; Font Manager 1.0d; (MyInfo B5.6); MyStuff 6.6; MPDisplayLITE V1.2; EPG2MEI v0.96;
Sig generated by TopManager/PcControl on 15/10/14
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Woolifox
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:30 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 05 Jun 2012 Posts: 6
Thanks for all your responses. I am amazed as I thought the Toppy community would have faded but how wrong I was.

This is my second Topfield and I bought this one off eBay so although the previous owner claimed it was relatively new (and no longer needed following a switch to Sky Plus etc etc), I have no way of being sure and the seller was not very communicative which makes me suspicious. But certainly while I have had it (about a year I guess) it is put into standby every day and well ventilated.

A few more bits of information which may, or may not help,

Following the recent digital switchover I had retuned and painstakingly removed the duplicate channels and a load of unwanted channels, but I may still have had a few with a weak signal. When I did the same on my other Topfield I deleted just about every channel other than the relatively few I know I would watch and that older box was a lot happier after that exercise.

I tried switching it on again tonight and I noticed the clock time had reset to 00:00 but no idea if this is significant or not.

I wasn’t aware of the memory issue but I am now! Ironically I had only the day before been through and deleted a load of old series and power searches and a load of old watched recordings.

I have a digital multi meter and don’t mind using a soldering iron, so I guess the first step would be start with the PSU capacitors and go from there. I don’t have a USB caddy for the hard drive, but I guess that is the second port of call.

Thanks again and any further thoughts gratefully received.
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alan_m
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:53 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 3190 Location: Southchurch Village, Southend-on-Sea
Woolifox wrote:

I have a digital multi meter and don’t mind using a soldering iron, so I guess the first step would be start with the PSU capacitors and go from there. I don’t have a USB caddy for the hard drive, but I guess that is the second port of call.

Thanks again and any further thoughts gratefully received.


Power supply - links also apply to 5810
http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=250310#250310

It also helps us if you tell us which firmware/software is installed on the box.

A rescan for channels requires a factor reset (factory settings) first as the scan only adds channels and doesn't get rid all the old redundant channel information. These days it is easily possible to get signals from multiple transmitters so sometime an auto-scan is not advisable. Manual scanning or a TAP such as FastscanGUI means that you don't get the duplicates in the first place.

An installation of MyStuff V6.4 will include putting a few useful TAPs such as FastscanGUI, Signal Monitor, HDDInfo, Channel Organiser etc. in a utilities folder on the Toppy's hard disk and an Up to date copy of MyInfo in Auto Start. MyInfo will show the remaining RAM you have left (anything below 5Mbytes and you could be seeing a lot of unexpected/unpredictable behaviour)

_________________
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5800 - 1Tbyte HD and fan F/W: MS6, 5.13.65T 18 Nov 2010 -Te+B2D plus aXeL
Auto Start:MyStuff 6.5|EPG2MEI v0.96|Extend v1.7|SecCache (UK) v0.4|TF5000 Display v1.53|MHEG On/Off A3
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juwlz
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:07 am Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10354 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
Woolifox wrote:
This is my second Topfield and I bought this one off eBay so although the previous owner claimed it was relatively new (and no longer needed following a switch to Sky Plus etc etc), I have no way of being sure and the seller was not very communicative which makes me suspicious.
I'd generally recommend a preventative PSU repair for any 2nd hand Toppy, unless you're absolutely certain enough of its history to be sure it's not needed.
Quote:
Following the recent digital switchover I had retuned and painstakingly removed the duplicate channels and a load of unwanted channels, but I may still have had a few with a weak signal.
A combination of FastScanGUI and Channel Organiser (which are installed in the Utilities folder on your Toppy my the MyStuff 6.4 installer), or using TopManager on a Windows PC make this a really quick and routine task - much less "painstaking" than doing it manually Wink.
Quote:
I tried switching it on again tonight and I noticed the clock time had reset to 00:00 but no idea if this is significant or not.
Have you tried flashing EmptySettings yet? I can't see you making any progress until you do.
Quote:
I wasn’t aware of the memory issue but I am now! Ironically I had only the day before been through and deleted a load of old series and power searches and a load of old watched recordings.
That will help, but nothing like as much as deleting channels (as per my earlier link on Toppy Memory).
Quote:
I have a digital multi meter and don’t mind using a soldering iron, so I guess the first step would be start with the PSU capacitors and go from there.
PM andyfras for a capacitor kit. He sells good quality ones more cheaply than a minimum order from other reputable suppliers.
Quote:
I don’t have a USB caddy for the hard drive, but I guess that is the second port of call.
I've successfully used one of these in the past. That particular one is no longer available, but you should be able to find something similar. I've used caddies too, but generally for "permanent" re-housing of old disk drives. Something like this is much quicker and easier than fiddling about with a caddy for one-off connections.

_________________
5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+BmC0CfCtFsIMPePsR3UUuUxZ
5810, TS On, F/W: F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +BmCfCtFsR3Z
MyStuff info; Help!; Reference
Harmony 885 remote. Sig date 8 April 2012
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Woolifox
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:13 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 05 Jun 2012 Posts: 6
Hi.

Quick update - I tried flashing EmptySettings which must have done something as on the next re-boot the box showed "no name" and a small red triangle with an exclamation sign in it. Some thing flashed up after the usual “run” but it immediately then goes in to the “verify files and folders” bit, followed by a reboot, and so on, and so on

I've ordered some replacement capacitors, and the weather looks bad this weekend so I shouldn’t get distracted by the garden, so replacing them is my next task.

All the best,
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juwlz
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:25 pm Reply with quote
MyStuff Team Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 10354 Location: Wokingham, Berkshire (Hannington transmitter)
I'm guessing you'll want to order something to connect the hard drive to your PC too, so that you can recover the drive.

Julie

_________________
5800, TS On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+BmC0CfCtFsIMPePsR3UUuUxZ
5810, TS On, F/W: F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 +BmCfCtFsR3Z
MyStuff info; Help!; Reference
Harmony 885 remote. Sig date 8 April 2012
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alan_m
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:26 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 3190 Location: Southchurch Village, Southend-on-Sea
Woolifox wrote:
Hi.

Quick update - I tried flashing EmptySettings which must have done something as on the next re-boot the box showed "no name" and a small red triangle with an exclamation sign in it. Some thing flashed up after the usual “run” but it immediately then goes in to the “verify files and folders” bit, followed by a reboot, and so on, and so on

I've ordered some replacement capacitors, and the weather looks bad this weekend so I shouldn’t get distracted by the garden, so replacing them is my next task.

All the best,


Replacing capacitors is a wise move.

Sometimes the firmware gets corrupted and it can be reinstalled using TFDN_USB (Use the recommended firmware on this site)
See the following link plus the next 6/10 posts in that thread
http://forum.toppy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=235616#235616

Sometimes it requires a new firmware install followed by emptysettings(both using TFDN_USB).

In at least one case it required an install of firmware, followed by emptysettings, followed by disconnecting the hard disk and another emptysettings.

Don't forget that after empty settings you will be stuck in the menu until you do another factory reset/scan for channels.

_________________
www.tap-room.com for TaP news, September/October 2014 edition now out
5800 - 1Tbyte HD and fan F/W: MS6, 5.13.65T 18 Nov 2010 -Te+B2D plus aXeL
Auto Start:MyStuff 6.5|EPG2MEI v0.96|Extend v1.7|SecCache (UK) v0.4|TF5000 Display v1.53|MHEG On/Off A3
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Woolifox
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:56 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 05 Jun 2012 Posts: 6
Also now tried flashing EmptySettings and reloading the firmware in case that was corrupt but no joy. So I also tried doing anther flashing EmptySettings, a reload of the firmware and for the fun of it another flashing EmptySettings but same symptoms I’m afraid.

I did catch a glimpse of the message before it lapsed into the “Verifying Files and Folders” loop routine and that said firmware something or other and there was a “yes” “no” selection, but it literally flashed up for a split second before the now rather repetitive ‘VF&F’ message.

I’ve been told to ‘Stop now!’ and we have reverted to the mundane freeview TV but will do the capacitors over the weekend and then worry about the hard drive.
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Geoff Bacon
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:15 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 3062 Location: Bristol ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ Windows XP, USB
Suspect the box thinks it has had an OTA firmware update (Over The Air) and is waiting for you to scan for channels; it is then VF&Fing before you can scan

You may find you can fix it by disconnecting the disk (on the basis that it can't do a VF&F if there is no file system). After scanning, try reconnecting the disk.

Take care disconnecting the disk in case you get a shock (suggest you google the site for how to remove disk).

Geoff
PS: I've no idea if this will work!

_________________
TopManager program
TF5800, IA On, F/W: MS6 Recommended F/W 12/9/2009 -Sy+EvEzHsPfUUuZ
TAPs: PcControl B1.4; StopExit v1.01; QuickJump 1.72; MyInfo B5.6; Font Manager 1.0d; EPG2MEI v0.96; CrashTrace v0.4; EIT Sub (Game) v0.6; Extend v1.7; WSSkiller V2.12d; SecCache (UK) v0.4; MyStuff 6.5;
Sig generated by MyInfo on 6/9/13
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andyfras
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:06 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3065 Location: Fleet, Hampshire (Hannington)
In case it is the capacitors causing the problem, I suggest unplugging your Toppy from the mains until they are replaced. There is a strong chance of damage to the HDD and/or mainboard while the PSU is producing out-of-specification voltages,

_________________
Toppy PSU repair service or capacitor kits for DIY available - PM me for details.
MyStuff 6.5 : Little Clock : MHEGOnOff : Extend : EPG2MEI : SecCache : EIT_Sub : TSSaver
Channel Organiser : Tap Commander : USB Accelerator : HDD Info : PCControl : Signal Monitor : MyInfo
URC-7555 remote: TF5800 1TB with fan, Recommended_5800.tfd + CfPePsScWfZ
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Woolifox
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:24 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 05 Jun 2012 Posts: 6
Thanks to Andyfrass for the very speedy delivery of the capacitor kit which I fitted this morning but,,,, when I power up it went straight into the verifying files and folders/reboot loop. But at least that job is done now and the PSU crossed off the possibles list.

Thanks to Geoff Bacon for the idea of booting up without the disk connected. I didn’t think the Topfield would boot at all, but much to amazement it functioned as perfectly good freeview TV. And it did at least stop the damned VF&F and allowed me to see the message before it went into that loop, which was to recommended a factory reset as the firmware had changed. But,,,, a factory reset, a scan and reconnection of the drive went straight back into VF&F loop.

Thanks to Juwlz for recommending a USB caddy for the hard drive and other suggestions, and thanks to Roga and others for recommended TopfHDRW/Doctor which did sort out some bad clusters on the drive.

And well,,,, thanks to everyone for your comments and suggestions and help.

And thankfully, fingers crossed,,, I now have my Topfield back, and don’t even appear to have lost any recordings, and I am a little wiser and have that Readybrek glow of satisfaction of having repaired something myself,,,,, but it’s bound to break again now having said that.
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