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<  Freeview, TopUp and TV  ~  Signal Problems in Teesside

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ichilton
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:00 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 506
Hi,

I wonder if someone would be able to give me some advice?

I live on a big housing estate in Teesside (Ingleby Barwick) and receive from the Billsdale transmitter.

I have a big ariel in the loft (which I checked when I moved in was pointing the correct way with a compass), which feeds in to a 2-way booster and out to both the bedroom and lounge (even though we dont have anything connected in the bedroom).

In the lounge, I come out of the wall into a 6db attenuator and into a T-piece, who's 2 outputs feed both of the inputs on my Toppy TF5800.

The above sounds very odd, but without either the attenuator or the T-piece, it doesn't work - channels either dont work or are very stuttery and broken.

With these in, the signal meter on the Toppy generally reads nearly full with the quality slightly above half way.

This has always worked ok, with the odd minor jump/stutter here and there, but in the past few weeks, I seem to have lost BBC2 (and the other channels on the same multiplex) all together (both on the Toppy and with the Freeview on my TV itself which is connected to one of the loop through outputs on the Topfield).

The booster in the loft has a variable gain control which is on full - i've tried to drop it, as well as tried to remove the attenuator and t-piece and that doesn't work. I've also tried replacing the booster with an 8-way SLx one and that didn't help either.

I invested in a Labgear DVB-T Finder as they were cheap on ebay and plugging this in before the T-piece (after the attenuator) and all of the lights (80, 70, 60, 50 dBuv) light up. Putting it after the T-piece and 3 of them light up.

Is anyone able to give me some advice on how to fix this? - ideally with little or no cost!

Thanks,

Ian

_________________
TF5800PVR 160GB (Silver) - Firmware v5.13.65 (CyDeFHMhPPcRReRpST2XpXw), Transmitter: Billsdale
Connected by: Linksys NSLU2 V2.3R29-uNSLUng-5.5-beta.
Taps: MyStuff 5.62, eit2mei B7.8m3, TF5000 (LCD) Display v1.53, QuickJump v1.69
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andyfras
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:12 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 3004 Location: Fleet, Hampshire (Hannington)
Have you tried removing the booster, attenuator and splitter? That should restore the signal level to the same point but without the extra noise added.

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ichilton
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:14 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 506
Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

I tried replacing the booster with a joining piece for speed and removing the attenuator and splitter and that didn't work - my next test was to remove the plug from the cable going down to the lounge and wire it straight into the ariel so there is no join but i've not tried that yet....maybe i'll try that this weekend.

Ian

_________________
TF5800PVR 160GB (Silver) - Firmware v5.13.65 (CyDeFHMhPPcRReRpST2XpXw), Transmitter: Billsdale
Connected by: Linksys NSLU2 V2.3R29-uNSLUng-5.5-beta.
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alan_m
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:45 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 3124 Location: Southchurch Village, Southend-on-Sea
ichilton wrote:
Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

I tried replacing the booster with a joining piece for speed and removing the attenuator and splitter and that didn't work - my next test was to remove the plug from the cable going down to the lounge and wire it straight into the ariel so there is no join but i've not tried that yet....maybe i'll try that this weekend.

Ian


Also install and run the signal monitot TAP as it will give you a lot of information about your reception on the same screen, both tuners adn all MUXs
Screenshot and download from TapWorld
http://www.tapworld.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=318

Levels need to be 50%+ (ideally 60%+) and a figure of 100% may indicate too much signal level

The most important figure is that for QUALITY which should be a stable 99 or 100%

Quote:

Toppy generally reads nearly full with the quality slightly above half way


If this means that the quality figure is only "half way" then you are a million miles away for a reliable reception. QUALITY needs to be 100% all the time.

BTW large aerials and loft don't go well together. There is too much in a loft that can degrade your reception. Water tanks, pipework, metal plates joints roofing struts in close proximity to the aerial elements can affect performance.


Last edited by alan_m on Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

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ichilton
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:48 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 506
Hi,

Ahh yes - I had that on years ago and forgot all about it.

I'll install it and report back!

Thanks,

Ian

_________________
TF5800PVR 160GB (Silver) - Firmware v5.13.65 (CyDeFHMhPPcRReRpST2XpXw), Transmitter: Billsdale
Connected by: Linksys NSLU2 V2.3R29-uNSLUng-5.5-beta.
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ryclark
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:24 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 1525 Location: Shropshire
There is engineering work going on at Bilsdale which means DTT signals may be weaker than normal. Amplifying to increase levels may cause the analogue signals to overload the amp or the input stages of the Toppy tuners causing plenty of level but poor signal quality to be read.

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ichilton
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:27 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 506
Hi,

Interesting - how do you know that - is it publicly available?

Do you know the dates of the maintenance?

Thanks,

Ian

_________________
TF5800PVR 160GB (Silver) - Firmware v5.13.65 (CyDeFHMhPPcRReRpST2XpXw), Transmitter: Billsdale
Connected by: Linksys NSLU2 V2.3R29-uNSLUng-5.5-beta.
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leona
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:37 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 07 Nov 2010 Posts: 149 Location: Devon, UK (Tx: Stockland Hil)
A quick search on google gave me this
http://www.ukfree.tv/txlist.php
You can check transmitter information from here, its shows the transmitters under maintenance.

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Leona
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ichilton
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:59 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 506
Hi,

Lots to report!

I removed the booster in the loft, connected the cable from the lounge straight onto the aerial and also removed the attenuator and the T-piece.

BBC2 etc still didn't work but the other channels all seemed to work ok and looked as if they still had the same signal and quality readout.

I tried doing a channel scan and it found a 2nd BBC2 - one worked and one didn't. I then did a factory reset and another scan and all seems to be working fine.

Just one other piece of advice if that's ok!

I had the aerial connected into Tuner 1 In, Tuner 2 Out connected to Tuner 2 In, Tuner 2 Out to RF IN, RF OUT into the input of an old Sky receiver i'm using for Free-to-Air and the output of the Sky box into an 8-way SLx booster.

The outputs of the booster go into another room (hence going via the Toppy RF in/out and the Sky box), into my Slingbox and into the TV.

All seemed to be working ok until I turned on the Toppy again after it was off. The wife was watching ITV on the TV with the built in Freeview and it started going all stuttery and pixelated.

I tried adding a 3db or 6db attenuator on the input of the booster or the output of the booster but nothing seemed to help - the only way of getting it to stop was to turn the Toppy off - as soon as I did that, it was fine again.

I've got around it by putting the T-piece back in, so the ariel goes into the T-piece which connects to Tuner 1 IN and via a lead into Tuner 2 IN. I then run Tuner 1 OUT to RF IN, RF OUT, Sky and the booster as per above and Tuner 2 OUT to the TV and it seems ok so far.

I'm interested if anyone has any suggestions why it went dodgy when the Toppy was turned on and how I can fix it without using the T-piece?

I'm just going to install the Signal Monitor TAP to check what the signal readings are all like now.

Thanks,

Ian

_________________
TF5800PVR 160GB (Silver) - Firmware v5.13.65 (CyDeFHMhPPcRReRpST2XpXw), Transmitter: Billsdale
Connected by: Linksys NSLU2 V2.3R29-uNSLUng-5.5-beta.
Taps: MyStuff 5.62, eit2mei B7.8m3, TF5000 (LCD) Display v1.53, QuickJump v1.69
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ichilton
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:37 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 506
Hi,

ok, i've got Signal Monitor on.

I realised that Mux 2 wasn't working properly on Tuner 2, so I removed the T-piece and went back to Aerial into T1 IN and T1 OUT to T2 IN. This gives me problems with my Freeview TV as that only seems to work in T2 OUT but I need that to feed RF IN and the distribution to my office but i'll worry about that in a bit.

Here are the Signal Monitor results - please could someone offer advice as to how these look? -

Code:

Mux 1 (RF: 34): 51:51:52  100:100:100   54:54:54  100:100:100
Mux 2 (RF: 21): 49:49:49  99:99:100     30:40:42  91:93:100
Mux B (RF: 24): 55:56:58  100:100:100   52:52:52  100:100:100
Mux A (RF: 31): 52:52:52  90:90:100     49:49:49  80:90:100
Mux C (RF: 27): 53:53:53  100:100:100   49:49:49  99:99:100
Mux D (RF: 42): 56:56:56  100:100:100   55:55:55  100:100:100

Thanks,

Ian

EDIT: I've just found that if I do this it seems to work ok at the moment from what I can see:
Aerial -> T1 IN
T1 OUT -> T2 IN
T2 OUT -> Sat IN
SAT OUT1 -> TV
SAT OUT2 -> Toppy RF IN
Toppy RF OUT -> Booster
Booster -> Other rooms etc.

_________________
TF5800PVR 160GB (Silver) - Firmware v5.13.65 (CyDeFHMhPPcRReRpST2XpXw), Transmitter: Billsdale
Connected by: Linksys NSLU2 V2.3R29-uNSLUng-5.5-beta.
Taps: MyStuff 5.62, eit2mei B7.8m3, TF5000 (LCD) Display v1.53, QuickJump v1.69
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alan_m
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:58 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 3124 Location: Southchurch Village, Southend-on-Sea
ichilton wrote:
Hi,

ok, i've got Signal Monitor on.

I realised that Mux 2 wasn't working properly on Tuner 2, so I removed the T-piece and went back to Aerial into T1 IN and T1 OUT to T2 IN. This gives me problems with my Freeview TV as that only seems to work in T2 OUT but I need that to feed RF IN and the distribution to my office but i'll worry about that in a bit.

Here are the Signal Monitor results - please could someone offer advice as to how these look? -

Code:

Mux 1 (RF: 34): 51:51:52  100:100:100   54:54:54  100:100:100
Mux 2 (RF: 21): 49:49:49  99:99:100     30:40:42  91:93:100
Mux B (RF: 24): 55:56:58  100:100:100   52:52:52  100:100:100
Mux A (RF: 31): 52:52:52  90:90:100     49:49:49  80:90:100
Mux C (RF: 27): 53:53:53  100:100:100   49:49:49  99:99:100
Mux D (RF: 42): 56:56:56  100:100:100   55:55:55  100:100:100


Thanks,

Ian


Transmitter channel numbers OK for the Bilsdale transmitter.

Signal levels mariginal
Signal quality on two MUXs unacceptable.

Do you really mean a T piece or a proper passive splitter?

What are the Signal Monitor results if you feed the aerial lead into Tuner2 input and put the (short) connecting lead from tuner 2 output to tuner 1 input.

What RF channel number are you outputting the topy signal on?
Menu -> System settings -> A/V output settings -> RF channel = ????

_________________
www.tap-room.com for TaP news, MARCH/APRIL 2014 edition now out
5800 - 1Tbyte HD and fan F/W: MS6, 5.13.65T 18 Nov 2010 -Te+B2D plus aXeL
Auto Start:MyStuff 6.5|EPG2MEI v0.96|Extend v1.7|SecCache (UK) v0.4|TF5000 Display v1.53|MHEG On/Off A3
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ichilton
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:08 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 506
Hi,

I've found a picture of the splitter I was using on Google Images:
http://www.cables-leads.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/a/e/aerial-splitter-female-2-male-382_1.jpg

Swapping T1 and T2 over, I get this:
Code:

Mux 2: 48:48:48  90:93:100   44:44:44  97:97:100
Mux A: 51:51:51  87:87:100   49:49:49  89:90:100

(all the other qualities are 100:100:100 so i've omitted)

I'm not using the short lead from the Toppy as I heard it caused problems - i'm using a normal longer one.

I'm outputting on channel 60 on the Toppy and 64 on the Satellite box.

Any advice?

Thanks,

Ian

_________________
TF5800PVR 160GB (Silver) - Firmware v5.13.65 (CyDeFHMhPPcRReRpST2XpXw), Transmitter: Billsdale
Connected by: Linksys NSLU2 V2.3R29-uNSLUng-5.5-beta.
Taps: MyStuff 5.62, eit2mei B7.8m3, TF5000 (LCD) Display v1.53, QuickJump v1.69
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