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<  TAP and patch development  ~  [Ws] WidescreenScaling

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R2-D2
Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:30 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12149
There is a "feature" in the firmware which forces any scaling of widescreen broadcasts to retain the aspect ratio, while (proper) 4:3 broadcasts can be scaled arbitrarily. And the BBC transmits 4:3 programmes in a widescreen frame, so they aren't proper 4:3, and so they are also forced to retain the aspect ratio when scaled. This may have been added for (perceived) issues involving PiP, but to me it seems that that's still done wrong anyway, so it's a bit moot.

Anyway, [Ws] WidescreenScaling disables this restriction and allows arbitrary rescaling of widescreen broadcasts. This is most easily tested using VTS in the Extended Command Console (see here for example usage).

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miri
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:23 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 26 Aug 2006 Posts: 150 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
In the decription of VTS it is stated that: VTS mainSub(1,0) x y w h
... but I presume that w=<720 and h =<576, so it is only possible to zoom out - not in any way possible to zoom in ???

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miri
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R2-D2
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:13 pm Reply with quote
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miri wrote:
not in any way possible to zoom in ???
I believe the scaler is fully generic so you can do anything: slicing bits off the image, scaling and distorting it. And that should be obvious from the centre-cutting that the firmware can do, although the general access routines only deal with the simple scaling.

I had to delve into the scaler code to uncover the widescreen restriction -- there's lots and lots of it, and it's very complicated stuff (but probably trivial stuff to a graphics expert). In the end I had to attack the search from all directions (following the code down through the firmware calls, checking effects on EMMA registers, working back up from firmware references to those registers, and monitoring firmware data structures). Clearly, I did find the code that did the restriction, but apart from that specific bit I can't say that I fully understand the stuff around this area. Confused

It's quite common for there to be routines in the firmware that aren't used. This will be when they are in the same compilation unit to code that is used, so the linker can't elide them. So it's certainly possible that there are more general routines for using the scaler, but I'm not sure I could find them...

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jumbo
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:12 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 11 Apr 2005 Posts: 4733
Can you please explain the 'before' and 'after' of this patch please (if relevant) so that i can see it 'working'. I've applied it but don't know what to look for!
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R2-D2
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:28 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12149
As in the first post, use VTS (or VS) in the Extended Command Console on the TF58x0, or write yourself a TAP that uses TAP_Channel_Scale(), or maybe try one of the TAPs that does widescreen/letterbox fiddling (which complain about this "feature").

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jumbo
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:21 pm Reply with quote
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Thanks, I think I understand; So now DumbWideScreen TAP can, when modified, turn the BBC 4:3 to 4:3 Magnified to cover the whole screen rather than with black bars.
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Sebby
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:24 pm Reply with quote
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Sorry to sound stupid, but what's the difference between this and [Af]?

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R2-D2
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:47 pm Reply with quote
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Sebby wrote:
what's the difference between this and [Af]?
One controls whether the firmware can arbitrarily scale (i.e. distort) a widescreen format broadcast, and the other stops (among other things) BBC 4:3 broadcasts being centre-cut to 4:3 due to the AFD, and leaves them (unaltered) as 16:9 with black bars. You may need both in order to arbitrarily scale a BBC 4:3 broadcast (as widescreen with black bars).

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Sebby
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:53 pm Reply with quote
Site helper Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Posts: 1199 Location: London
Thanks. Smile

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MrOctagon
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:21 pm Reply with quote
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I'm considering installing both the Ws and Af patches on my firmware but am wondering whether they will make a difference for me: I watch the toppy via scart (though I may soon move to component) on a 26 inch wide-screen lcd tv, I have the tv set to 'autowide' so that all toppy output is forced into wide-screen. Please could anyone advise whether these patches will make a difference for my set-up? Thanks in advance for any advice.

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mike.hinson
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:42 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 1735 Location: Bordon, Hants UK
MrOctagon wrote:
...I watch the toppy via scart ... I have the tv set to 'autowide' so that all toppy output is forced into wide-screen...
I try to do this but I have to use WSS Killer to tell the toppy to scale all formats to widescreen... If I don't then my TV changes aspect ratio all the time & I am having to reset it manualy after almost every channel change or advert break.

I am not using these 2 patches yet, but if this sort of idea would work, then it would save me another TAP running.

Thanks,
/\/\

(edit: where is the [Af] patch thread, I know of no way to search for such a short string in square brackets)

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juwlz
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:00 am Reply with quote
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mike.hinson wrote:
(edit: where is the [Af] patch thread, I know of no way to search for such a short string in square brackets)
Here. (Actually, that's not the patch thread. Maybe there isn't one?)

Google site:toppy.org.uk "[Af]" R2-D2

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Black Cloud
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:16 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Sep 2005 Posts: 297 Location: Brentwood Transmitter: Crystal Palace
juwlz wrote:
(Actually, that's not the patch thread. Maybe there isn't one?)

That's as good as it gets. The link to the patch is part way through the thread.

I use WSSKiller to force 4:3 broadcasts into a 16:9 frame. This works for everything except 4:3 on BBC channels, which get squished. Installing the [Af] patch fixes the BBC 4:3 without affecting anything else.

Now the TV stays in 'wide' mode all the time, and all 4:3 broadcasts *appear* to be in pillar box mode, but are actually widescreen with black bars applied within the Toppy.

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