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tango
Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:46 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 23 Feb 2008 Posts: 74 Location: Newcastle, Australia
Hi,

I've found a bug that I think might be related to the [Xp] patch. (I hope I'm wrong).

Under certain cirmcumstances I can have 2 recordings (on separate muxes), yet can change to view any other channel/mux. One of the recordings is naturally corrupt and contains only 1 or 2 MB. Older firmwares had a similar bug (called the dual tuner bug or 3rd tuner bug on the Oz forums). But it was created in a slightly different way.

I'm running the Mar-08 firmware for the Oz TF5000PVRt (ID 416).
Normally I have lots of patches. But, I can recreate the problem with only the [Xp] patch loaded and I can not recreate it with the unpatched firmware.

Here is how I recreate it:
Note: the 3 channels I'm using (ABC, PRIME, NBN) are all on different muxes.
1 - create a timer for ABC at xx:00 for 7 mins (A)
2 - create a timer for PRIME at xx:01 for 5 mins (B)
3 - create a timer for PRIME at xx:06 for 5 mins (C)
4 - create a timer for NBN at xx:08 for 5 mins (D)
5 - create a timer for ABC at xx:14 for 5 mins (X)
6 - create a timer for PRIME at xx:14 for 5 mins (Y)
5 - watch ABC and wait for timers to kick in
6 - between xx:06 and xx:08 playback file B
7 - after playback of B finishes I'm left on channel NBN
8 - once recordings X & Y start I can change to any channel!
If I watch NBN both the red recording icons do not have red centres.
If I watch PRIME, it's recording icon has a red centre and I can chaseplay.
If I watch ABC, it's recording icon has a red centre but I can NOT chaseplay.
When recording X finishes the info shows the right channel (ABC) but the wrong description (from the show on NBN). But, there is nothing in the file.

It's a little time consuming to test, but you can shorten the timers if you load them via the API. If you load them manually you're limited to a minimum of 5 mins.
I think the important parts are:
- you are playing back a file when the NBN recording starts, and
- the 2nd PRIME recording is still recording when the NBN one starts
There may be a shorter path to recreating the bug, but the above works Rolling Eyes
(I have been able to recreate it with a gap between the 2 PRIME recordings B & C, so it's not that they are back to back).

When I tested on an unpatched Mar-08 f/w, at xx:08 I get a CYR and the playback is stopped. When X & Y start there is no bug.


So, my questions...
Is this a bug with the patch?
Is this recreateable on the UK firmwares?
Do you need more info from me? If so, let me know what you need and I'll reply tomorrow.

Regards,
Tango.
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R2-D2
Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:00 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12149
tango wrote:
I'm running the Mar-08 firmware for the Oz TF5000PVRt (ID 416).
Does [Xp] V4 work on that firmware? V5 was a bit of a sledgehammer get round the new mess they've made, and there could easily be an issue with their changes and chaseplay.

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tango
Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:40 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 23 Feb 2008 Posts: 74 Location: Newcastle, Australia
R2-D2 wrote:
tango wrote:
I'm running the Mar-08 firmware for the Oz TF5000PVRt (ID 416).
Does [Xp] V4 work on that firmware? V5 was a bit of a sledgehammer get round the new mess they've made, and there could easily be an issue with their changes and chaseplay.

Yep - [Xp] V4 works and there's no sign of the bug. Perfect Very Happy

I thought I moved from v4 to v5 so I could dynamically unpatch it. But I guess not, as I can dynamically patch and unpatch v4 now.

Thanks very much R2. I'll post a link in the Oz forums tomorrow.

Cheers,
Tango.
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R2-D2
Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:44 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12149
tango wrote:
I thought I moved from v4 to v5 so I could dynamically unpatch it. But I guess not, as I can dynamically patch and unpatch v4 now.
That'll either be because you sent me a copy of your firmware and I updated V4 with it, or because the latest version of HDFW can now remove certain generic patches.

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AllenG
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:52 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 08 Jun 2008 Posts: 117 Location: New Zealand
Hi R2,

I've just tried HDFW v2.3 on my New Zealand TF6000 PVR ES.

The TAP runs and applies patches but crashed when backing up firmware and crashed and corrupted the Toppy when Flashing the Firmware from inside the TAP. I was however able to download and flash the patched firmware from the PC and it runs.

Here's my query.

I was wanting to use the WatchNoCYR & PlayNoCYR patches. The PlayNoCYR(v5) patch loads, and with initial tests seems to work. The WatchNoCYR(v3) one is "not intended for this firmware".

Are you able (and willing) to update the patch for our firmware if I sent you a copy? This is a new Beta firmware that is about to be released in NZ. Officially it fixes random reboots that resulted in 0MB recordings. I have found that a few other things are fixed as well like the A/R and V/Format buttons now work.

System ID is 2457, Loader V L 1.16, Device Version 5.4.0, App version TF-TEST_NNPCW... (the rest of the name is not visable)

HDFW reports the firmware as FW=2086

R2, I'm also interested in the EITSectionCache patch. In NZ our EIT contains 7 days programming. My EPG doesn't seem to retain EPG info very well and loses program data over a short period of time after changing MUXes. Also If I watch the native EPG for a couple of days ahead in the alternate view I can see program info appear and dissapear from the guide as I watch. This is for channels on the same MUX. Other than the short description on your page, I can't find much info on the EITSectionCache patch but suspect that this patch improves things. Again this patch is being reported as not compatable by HDFW. If this does what I think it does I would like to be able to use this patch as well.

Regards, Allen.
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R2-D2
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:35 pm Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12149
AllenG wrote:
The TAP runs and applies patches but crashed when backing up firmware and crashed and corrupted the Toppy when Flashing the Firmware from inside the TAP.
There's an issue with the TF6000 model that FireBird hasn't been able to solve because, AFAIK, nobody's given him a flash and memory dump, despite requests. So it's officially not supported.
Quote:
The WatchNoCYR(v3) one is "not intended for this firmware".
Does your firmware have the problem that it addresses? Topfield have actually fixed the bug in some firmwares (despite claiming there was no issue).
Quote:
I'm also interested in the EITSectionCache patch. In NZ our EIT contains 7 days programming. My EPG doesn't seem to retain EPG info very well and loses program data over a short period of time after changing MUXes.
That sounds more like the duplicates issue which is fixed (in our firmwares) by EITDupFix. If you can post (or PM me) a link to your firmware then I'll have a look and see whether it might easily be supported.

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R2-D2
Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:45 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12149
AllenG wrote:
The WatchNoCYR(v3) one is "not intended for this firmware".
As suspected, your firmware already contains the fix for this particular bug -- so I'm surprised you've seen any unnecessary CYRs while watching live TV. Of course, there could be other bugs/features in this area in your firmware...

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AllenG
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:21 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 08 Jun 2008 Posts: 117 Location: New Zealand
R2-D2 wrote:
As suspected, your firmware already contains the fix for this particular bug -- so I'm surprised you've seen any unnecessary CYRs while watching live TV. Of course, there could be other bugs/features in this area in your firmware...


Thanks R2 Cool Have you ascertained this from the firmware? This was definitely occurring in the previous firmware, but I'm not sure about this firmware. I'll take note if it does. I'm mainly playing recordings or chase playing and very rarely watch live these days. The Playback stopping on second recording seems to have been fixed by the PlayNoCYR v5 patch but I have still seen playback stop during chase play (with a CYR message I think). Can you tell if v4 of the patch would be more suitable?

Regards, Allen.

_________________
NZ TF6000PVR ES
Autostart: UK Timers v1.2c, Quickjump v1.73(masterpiece), UKAS v0.73.1, EPGnavigator V6.0.1
Patches: PlayNoCYR [Xp] v5, DescExt [De] v6
Other: LCNforSat vE4 (Experimental), HDFW v2.3, Surfer v0.14, Recording Fixer v1.3, JustEPG v15.3, AutoDel, Memory Dump, Memory Dump (Flash), Tap Commander 1.33, FIS_Test, MemLog v1.03.
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R2-D2
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:07 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12149
AllenG wrote:
Have you ascertained this from the firmware?
Yes, the specific bug has been fixed. You could easily have new ones, though.
Quote:
Can you tell if v4 of the patch would be more suitable?
No, but you might... Smile The two versions of the patch try different ways to force playback onto the internal path C, which should leave the recording paths A and B available for recordings. But Topfield have been messing in this area recently and may have broken things in other ways. Rolling Eyes

(And obviously it is almost impossible for me to debug firmwares that I can't run on the sort of scale that these patches required... But you'd have thought that now the problems have been proved to exist and proved to not be necessary, Topfield would now stop making statements to the contrary and get on with fixing them properly.)

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AllenG
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:36 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 08 Jun 2008 Posts: 117 Location: New Zealand
Thanks R2

R2-D2 wrote:
The two versions of the patch try different ways to force playback onto the internal path C, which should leave the recording paths A and B available for recordings. But Topfield have been messing in this area recently and may have broken things in other ways.

I'll take note if it happens on this firmware.

Quote:
No, but you might (try v4). (And obviously it is almost impossible for me to debug firmwares that I can't run on the sort of scale that these patches required...


I'll try v4 at some stage. At present I'm waiting to capture the exception from the random crash I have with EPGNv5.1c running. Something strange that I've recently noticed... I sometimes get a "No signal" message after playing back a recording. A single recording had started during playback. The main service is still visable (not sure if it the same channel as before playback), and the recording is OK???? I have to change channels a few times to get this message to go away.

Quote:
But you'd have thought that now the problems have been proved to exist and proved to not be necessary, Topfield would now stop making statements to the contrary and get on with fixing them properly.)


Completely agree. Rolling Eyes I have been providing feedback to our NZ supplier who seems enthusiastic to co-operate with Topfield in getting bugs fixed. I'm not sure how much of this is just talk but he is encouraging my feedback.

quote from email

"Feedback is not annoying it is very much appreciated. We will pass on your comments to Topfield and see what they can do about the suggestions. The thing to keep in mind though is as a manufacturer they need to weigh up each suggestion to see if the labour spent implementing it is worth it for them. If it is a bug they work very hard on fixing it for us, if it is a new feature or a minor change that affects very few people then they have to see it to be profitable to invest the time, that is part of the reason why they have made these units so editable and user customisable, and even provide documentation on creating your own TAP's on their main website"

_________________
NZ TF6000PVR ES
Autostart: UK Timers v1.2c, Quickjump v1.73(masterpiece), UKAS v0.73.1, EPGnavigator V6.0.1
Patches: PlayNoCYR [Xp] v5, DescExt [De] v6
Other: LCNforSat vE4 (Experimental), HDFW v2.3, Surfer v0.14, Recording Fixer v1.3, JustEPG v15.3, AutoDel, Memory Dump, Memory Dump (Flash), Tap Commander 1.33, FIS_Test, MemLog v1.03.
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R2-D2
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:05 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12149
AllenG wrote:
I sometimes get a "No signal" message after playing back a recording.
That's not uncommon. I suspect it's just a timing thing, with the system being more/less busy than expected and tuner reports taking their time to arrive. But it could also be lost messages (as seen with missing SVCSTATUS events to TAPs) due to buffer overflows (Topfield are very good at those...).
Quote:
I have to change channels a few times to get this message to go away.
Normally you should just leave it alone (rather than stressing the Toppy more) and it will disappear by itself. But I've come across code that accesses an otherwise unused variable to check whether to remove the banner. Confused I suspect this is a throw-back to a main/sub setup, with only the main being actually used (or it could be tuner 1/2).
Quote:
I have been providing feedback to our NZ supplier who seems enthusiastic to co-operate with Topfield in getting bugs fixed.
It's quite odd that they fix generic bugs in some firmwares and don't roll them out to others. On several occasions I've finally tracked down a bug and then eventually dreamt up a fix for it, only to find that the patch doesn't apply to some firmwares (usually recent Finnish ones...) because they've already fixed it!

If you run out of your own bugs to report then there are a few more listed here and here. Smile

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tango
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:22 pm Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 23 Feb 2008 Posts: 74 Location: Newcastle, Australia
R2-D2 wrote:
tango wrote:
I thought I moved from v4 to v5 so I could dynamically unpatch it. But I guess not, as I can dynamically patch and unpatch v4 now.
That'll either be because you sent me a copy of your firmware and I updated V4 with it, or because the latest version of HDFW can now remove certain generic patches.


Hi R2,

I've finally remembered (rediscovered) why I moved from V4 to V5 of Xp.... V4 was still giving me CYR messages when I started playback while there was exactly 1 recording in progress. (ie. start recording, start playback, wait for timer recording to start and then CYR would appear).

V5 fixed this on my firmware (Oz Mar-08 ), but introduces a rare corruption. (The one with the long winded way of recreating it, from several posts back):
tango wrote:
Here is how I recreate it:
Note: the 3 channels I'm using (ABC, PRIME, NBN) are all on different muxes.
1 - create a timer for ABC at xx:00 for 7 mins (A)
2 - create a timer for PRIME at xx:01 for 5 mins (B)
3 - create a timer for PRIME at xx:06 for 5 mins (C)
4 - create a timer for NBN at xx:08 for 5 mins (D)
5 - create a timer for ABC at xx:14 for 5 mins (X)
6 - create a timer for PRIME at xx:14 for 5 mins (Y)
5 - watch ABC and wait for timers to kick in
6 - between xx:06 and xx:08 playback file B
7 - after playback of B finishes I'm left on channel NBN
8 - once recordings X & Y start I can change to any channel!
If I watch NBN both the red recording icons do not have red centres.
If I watch PRIME, it's recording icon has a red centre and I can chaseplay.
If I watch ABC, it's recording icon has a red centre but I can NOT chaseplay.
When recording X finishes the info shows the right channel (ABC) but the wrong description (from the show on NBN). But, there is nothing in the file.

It's a little time consuming to test, but you can shorten the timers if you load them via the API. If you load them manually you're limited to a minimum of 5 mins.
I think the important parts are:
- you are playing back a file when the NBN recording starts, and
- the 2nd PRIME recording is still recording when the NBN one starts
There may be a shorter path to recreating the bug, but the above works Rolling Eyes
(I have been able to recreate it with a gap between the 2 PRIME recordings B & C, so it's not that they are back to back).

You suggested trying V4, which I did and was happy with. But, now I've rediscovered these CYRs when starting a playback with 1 recording.

So, I'd rather stick with V4 than have a corruption. But, my viewing habits/timers have now changed and I'm finding I'm getting more CYRs.

Are there any changes to Xp in the pipeline that might give me the best of both worlds?

Regards,
Tango.
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R2-D2
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:28 am Reply with quote
Frequent contributor Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 12149
tango wrote:
Are there any changes to Xp in the pipeline that might give me the best of both worlds?
Very unlikely without me studying your specific 2008 firmware, which (obviously) has a lot of odd changes in it. Topfield are well aware of the issue now, and they (temporarily) fixed it in our new firmwares, so if they can't be bothered to fix it properly in yours (and instead fiddle with stuff to seemingly deliberately prevent the patch working...) then I'm disinclined to spend time on it. But I will have a look at some point and just check if the main routine has changed in a simple way.

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tango
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:39 am Reply with quote
Regular contributor Joined: 23 Feb 2008 Posts: 74 Location: Newcastle, Australia
R2-D2 wrote:
But I will have a look at some point and just check if the main routine has changed in a simple way.

Thanks, that would be appreciated.
I can understand your reluctance - Topfield should just contract you, give you the firmware code and let you fix it properly Rolling Eyes

If you find something that can be tweaked withjout a lot of effort, great. If not, I might have to change my habits..... maybe I start a 2nd recording (for 5min) before starting playback (if I know I'm going to get interrupted).... hmmm, maybe not. I'm more likely to forget until I see the CYR. lol.

Cheers,
Tango.
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